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The whole "upto 8Mb" has popped up again

Euge
Grafter
Posts: 502
Registered: 11-10-2007

The whole "upto 8Mb" has popped up again

Is it simply a lack of education that makes people mad they don't receive 8Mb download speeds despite the fact it says 'upto' not 'for definite you will receive 8Mb no matter how far you are from the exchange because of magic and pixies'.
Or am I not argumentative enough and in fact just very happy that for the same price of dial-up (as it used to be) I now can receive things this decade down my phone line. Am I supposed to be upset that plusnet tells me that I can get upto 8Mb but don't actually achieve it. I don't think so but then I understand how it all works (to a degree, magic and pixies I think).
Does anyone else get slightly annoyed that this is broadcasted on the tv, channel 4 news I believe, this evening. Greed begets greed as they say, fast is never fast enough and the rich are never rich enough. Cest la vie Bwitched.
19 REPLIES
pierre_pierre
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Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: The whole "upto 8Mb" has popped up again

and even more outstanding that the people who regulate it OFCOM also believed the hype what chance have we got Huh Angry
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Re: The whole "upto 8Mb" has popped up again

Thing is, if you are not more than a couple of miles from the nearest exchange and your provider says up to 8Megs then you think, well it's got to be at least 2Megs so I should be ok for watching BBC & other progs.
The reality (in my case at least) is that I am lucky to achieve 1Meg but I do accept the point that for less than £10 a month it's a fantastic service as compared to dial up & probably cheaper !
itsme
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Re: The whole "upto 8Mb" has popped up again

I believe if you look at same of the finding, especially when comparing ISP against ISP by just stating whether they were faster or slower then specifying actual speeds it's because I believe they were actually trying to test ISP speeds and not sync or BT profile speeds. There is not enough content in the report on the actual protocol but as modified routers/modems were used I would not be surprised if these requested data transfers from the same source at the same time and therefore knowing how the data was sent and received would give a better indication of traffic speed through the ISP
MrC
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Posts: 521
Registered: 17-07-2008

Re: The whole "upto 8Mb" has popped up again

One problem is that the 'up to' issue has the potential to get much worse with the wider roll-out of ADSL2+ (and maybe in future VDSL etc) and the resulting wider range of available sync rates.
This will put pressure on the old ISP pricing model where the same price is charged regardless of the actual sync rate achieved. People that can only get say 1 mbps will be justifiably aggrieved if they are getting charged the same as those achieving 20+ mbps. I'm not sure what a better model would be. Banding is one option but this would cause problems where someone was just coming into a higher band (although you have the option of forcing CPEs to sync at a lower rate  Roll eyes ).
Personally I'd like to see the ISPs that use BT's infrastructure getting together with BT (& Ofcom etc) and agreeing a pricing structure where the ISPs pay BT less for lines with poorer sync rates. Maybe that would focus BT's mind on improving it's infrastructure Smiley
Mike
itsme
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Re: The whole "upto 8Mb" has popped up again

Quote
While many websites offer speed tests, their results can vary widely due to a number of factors aside from the ISP's speed; the routers measure the ISP's delivered speed regardless of these factors.
The routers collected speed data from 1,600 users' connections nationwide between November 2008 and April of this year - amounting to some 60 million separate speed tests in all.

It's no good having a high sync speed if you then move the bottleneck to the ISP.
pierre_pierre
Grafter
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Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: The whole "upto 8Mb" has popped up again

there is also the problem that some of our trialist are not getting 4mb on the ADSL2+, I dont follow the thread much, but I think that if you are on a low profile with ADSL, ADSL2+ wont help you, just give you a higher upload
Re Itsme, I think a couple of months ago, we had a forum member who had one of those routers
itsme
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Registered: 07-04-2007

Re: The whole "upto 8Mb" has popped up again

I am on the ADSL2+ trial and currently my IP profile is 2000kbps, majority been at 2500kbps. For me having anything between 2000 to 4000 does not make much difference. Having over 4000kbps will as this will allow high quality streaming.
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Re: The whole "upto 8Mb" has popped up again

Just an example of ISP’s promises
There are 10 households and small businesses  wired into our telephone pole (10 lines) system that is directly wired back to the exchange, the exchange is 3.5 kms away as the crow flies.
9 out of the 10 lines have broadband, we were all promised speeds of close to 2 mb.
Maximum we are all getting is 512kpbs but mostly (like now) 325kbs, sometimes were back to 256kbs.
We are with 5 different ISP’s (4 with BT, myself with plusnet, orthers with virgin, orange and talktalk).
The person who does not have Broadband is in the process trying to get connected, because of the deal he will probably go with sky.
He has approached Plusnet,  BT and Virgin.. All offer him speeds of upto 6MB, something we know they cannot deliver. Even Sky says he should get 6mb without site inspection!
Do ISP’s, even Offcom live on the same planet as the rest of us, were not getting 25% of our original promised bandwidth.
When I inspect 'samwise' its noticable that we've been 'cut back' from 2mb to 512kb.
Cannot really complain its better than dialup, that was a painful 16kbps

Four  years ago I lived in the outback of Australia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newhaven_Reserve
+ 300 odd kilometers north west of Alice springs.
Australian Telecommunications (think it was Austral) managed to get us 1mb down speed 375kbs  upspeedup for $16AUD per month (approx £6), telecom race………...the UK are a longway behind.
What I find frustrating…..those good folk who design websites on the assumption that everybody has broadband at 2mb or greater.

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Re: The whole "upto 8Mb" has popped up again

Quote from: pierre_pierre
I think a couple of months ago, we had a forum member who had one of those routers

You still do.  Wink
And it's not a router, it's an additional box connected to your modem/router running custom firmware. Based on a Linksys WRT54GL hardware in my case.
It functionally acts as a switch in my network and additionally monitors the wireless traffic (which bypasses it in my network, but not necessarily if you have a WAP). It also runs tests and communicates back to SamKnows when the network is idle.
198kHz
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Re: The whole "upto 8Mb" has popped up again

Quote from: Euge
Is it simply a lack of education that makes people mad they don't receive 8Mb download speeds despite the fact it says 'upto' not 'for definite you will receive 8Mb no matter how far you are from the exchange because of magic and pixies'.
<snip>
Does anyone else get slightly annoyed that this is broadcasted on the tv, channel 4 news I believe, this evening.
<snip>

Couldn't agree more Euge - it seems a right kerfuffle over nothing.
When it was all fixed speeds of ½, 1 or 2 Mbps, everyone seemed happy with whatever their line would support, presumably because there was no quoted maximum to aspire to. When MaxADSL started, perhaps it would have been better if ISPs hadn't mentioned '8' at all, as NO-ONE achieves that as a throughput speed.
Not young enough to know everything
mrmarkus1981
Grafter
Posts: 647
Registered: 26-02-2008

Re: The whole "upto 8Mb" has popped up again

I think the 'up to' is just a con to get customers to sign up, heres why:-
1. With Tiscali on 2MB line, upgraded after 1 year to 8MB line (NO CHANNGE) - Cancelled
2. AOL - Joined up with 'up to' 8MB line - same as Tiscali (2MB) - Cancelled
3. Joined a non high street Broadband Provider as i thought they would deliver - Plusnet 'up to' 8MB line
WALLA - 8MB as promised, 400m from the exchange. So basically the other 2 companies just blagged it and had no chance of delivering what they advertised.
A freind of mine lives across the road (10m) from the exchange in the town, he is with AOL and his broadband fluctuates from 512k to 3MB (MAX). And its a new build flat!
FYI - I couldnt get him to join Plusnet due to the 18month contract
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Re: The whole "upto 8Mb" has popped up again

Quote from: 4Candles
NO-ONE achieves that as a throughput speed.

Well throughput is limited to about 85% of sync speed due to various overheads, hence BT's highest IP profile of 7150.
Plenty get that near me, and much more in many cases (those on ADSL2+) - about 1km from our exchange by road.
The reporting has been terrible and just added to the confusion.
Moderator
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Re: The whole "upto 8Mb" has popped up again

Interesting blog post that I came across here http://unlikely-perfection.co.uk/2009/07/28/broadband-isps-blame-slow-internet-speeds/
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maranello
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Re: The whole "upto 8Mb" has popped up again

An informative blog post, which IMO should be sent to the BBC as a comment on their 'news' article.
Exactly what I would expect from the author, just surprised he didn't post it in this forum.
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