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The 'Tiscalification' of Plusnet is complete....

Community Veteran
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The 'Tiscalification' of Plusnet is complete....

http://www.plus.net/tiscali/
And to think that once upon a time, one of Plusnet's main competitors was Zen. Sad
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Community Veteran
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Re: The 'Tiscalification' of Plusnet is complete....

3 months free .. provided you commit to a further 15.
What an offer  Roll eyes
Still, not that we can accuse PlusNet of dumbing down their offers for the masses, and their books.
Not looking good with the now BT run management, is it?
Community Gaffer
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Re: The 'Tiscalification' of Plusnet is complete....

Sorry, but I'm failing to see what the problem is here. Broadband is a 'switchers' market, Tiscali have recently had well publicised financial problems and Carphone have just announced that they're buying them out. Some of their customers are going to be feeling a little uneasy at the moment so it's logical that would should target them.
We're a business and we're trying to acquire new customers, come on guys that's hardly a crime is it?

Bob Pullen
Plusnet Products Team
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Re: The 'Tiscalification' of Plusnet is complete....

No problem with that Bob so long as you also remember your loyal customers who have been with you a while.
My health club is always offering great deals to new members that are not available to existing ones. It's wrong.
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Re: The 'Tiscalification' of Plusnet is complete....

I think you miss the point a bit, Bob. To explain, I used the word 'Tiscalification' deliberately because it was coined (or at least used) in relation to Plusnet's recent product refresh - a refresh that was clearly mostly designed with the Tiscali-type-user in mind. I'm therefore not complaining about the offer itself; what I am saying, though, is that it confirms the idea of Plusnet becoming 'Tiscalified' - first PN change their products to be of a more TIscali-esque nature, then they start targeting TIscali's customers too.
The main point of all that, though, is to be found in what I said about Zen. Basically, a few years ago, Plusnet's services were clearly designed for the discerning internet user, and as such, they were often compared to ISPs that catered for a similar market like Zen. But these days PN are positioned in the market completely differently - if someone asked who PN are more similar to out of Zen or Tiscali, I'd have to give the latter as the answer, which I personally feel is a shame.
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Re: The 'Tiscalification' of Plusnet is complete....

I take the point about the title of this thread. However, as Bob pointed out, PN, like any other company is in the business of making money and the vast majority of people are not as discerning as many users who inhabit this forum.
Most just want a reliable connection, decent customer service and to be as cheap as possible. 
If PN can give away 3 months free broadband and charge the lower prices while maintaining good levels of service then so be it.
I just can't avoid feeling a bit perturbed, mainly because I don't believe that there is 'owt for nowt and I really hope that we won't see a decline in service due to this cost cutting.
Also, I agree with previous comments about new customers - I hate it when they get these marvelous deals and the reliable, long term users are left out. I have asked more than once if PN can offer anything to induce me to stay with Homephone Anytime but have had no reply. I think that the days of the loyalty offers may well be over.
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Re: The 'Tiscalification' of Plusnet is complete....

Quote from: poppy
I take the point about the title of this thread. However, as Bob pointed out, PN, like any other company is in the business of making money and the vast majority of people are not as discerning as many users who inhabit this forum.

But that's kind of the point - the vast majority of PN users aren't discerning customers any more because Plusnet no longer attract that kind of customer. And the ones that PN do still have tend to be, I suspect, long-term customers who joined PN back when their focus was on a different market segment to where it is today. Yet there still must be discerning customers out there, else companies like Zen wouldn't be able to survive.
On which note, I do feel the need to question the whole thing about 'making money'. Sorry to sound a bit like an Apple 'fanboy' but I think there's a fairly good analogy here: Apple could make themselves loads more money if they, for example, released a load of cheaper, poorer-quality computers (please, no arguments to do with computers here, as that's not what the thread's about). Indeed, they've been repeatedly asked if they're going to try competing in the netbook market, as it's expanding very quickly at the moment. But they've chosen not to, because they think they can't make a product worthy of Apple's high quality brand for the price of a netbook. Yet they're still doing Ok for themselves, even in a recession. The point, therefore, is that a company doesn't have to focus on making the most amount of money or attracting the largest number of customers in order to deem itself successful - which is the trap Plusnet seem to be falling in to. A company can still be successful if it caters to a niche (in this case, that of the 'discerning customer'), provided it does that job well.
itsme
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Re: The 'Tiscalification' of Plusnet is complete....

Where is Apple profit coming from, is it from iPod/itunes or AppleMac?
Community Veteran
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Re: The 'Tiscalification' of Plusnet is complete....

It's a mix of both AFAIK (they sell a lot more iPods than Macs, but each Mac generates more profit than an iPod). I do know though that iTunes is operated so it basically just breaks even.
N/A

Re: The 'Tiscalification' of Plusnet is complete....

Referring to the Apple/Windows analogy, I have frequently looked at the Macbooks - just this morning I was trying one in a computer shop - very nice it was too. However, even at a reduced price of £600-odd I wouldn't be tempted to buy it because as a basic computer user, Vista does what I need, very efficiently.
Obviously, for the people who are really into computers and know a lot about them, the Mac's would be well worth the extra money.
Broadband supply, to my mind, is just the same.
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Re: The 'Tiscalification' of Plusnet is complete....

I do actually see Bob's point.
If PN can grab a percentage of the fallout from them being sold by a good offer - as described - well so be it .
Then if PN's market share grows - then more money in the business and so better for all of us !. 
Many many businesses offer incentives to new customers - offers that are not available to existing customers.
But we have had offers too - like the 3 months at reduced price ........
198kHz
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Re: The 'Tiscalification' of Plusnet is complete....

I'm with the OP on this one. Sure, you can be successful and make money in the short term by being a big player at the economy end of the market, which is where PN seem to want to go. It's a capricious market, though, and if I were a betting man I'd bank on Zen, Newnet and IDNet being around in 10 year's time. I wouldn't have the same confidence in Orange, TalkTalk and AOL.
Not young enough to know everything
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Re: The 'Tiscalification' of Plusnet is complete....

Quote
But that's kind of the point - the vast majority of PN users aren't discerning customers any more because Plusnet no longer attract that kind of customer.

I think that's part  of the urban myth which the forum community, or at least those of us who've been around for a while, retain. The vast majority of Plusnet users haven't been geeks for about 5 years. This approach is nothing new. Once we launched easy start and then the original headline grabbing £14.99 products, the move towards increased market share was set in stone. We still compete against the original, usual suspects but we have to grow. We still attract the geeks, the referral numbers show that, because they're the people who local communities and groups turn to for advice and recommendations and they know they get the quality and support which they cant and wont get from the Talk Talks and Tiscalis of this world. We're also attracting the more discerning users at a different level with our Corporate and Reseller programme which is doing fantastically well. It's a competitive and truely a switchers market and we are playing in that space pretty impressively well right now.
Zen are still one of the most respected players out there, with Newnet and Idnet getting some decent comments on some forums, but they're still relatively small with little brand awareness outside certain forum groups and that presents its own growth problems. I've no idea what the future holds for them. Look at Enta. 12 months ago the were the blue eyed boy of the "discerning" market. How quickly did that change for them last October.

itsme
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Re: The 'Tiscalification' of Plusnet is complete....

Quote from: 4Candles
I'm with the OP on this one. Sure, you can be successful and make money in the short term by being a big player at the economy end of the market, which is where PN seem to want to go. It's a capricious market, though, and if I were a betting man I'd bank on Zen, Newnet and IDNet being around in 10 year's time. I wouldn't have the same confidence in Orange, TalkTalk and AOL.

As Apple was used as analogy is the ipod aimed at the mass or the niche market? If it's the former will they be around in 10 years time?
MommaCat
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Re: The 'Tiscalification' of Plusnet is complete....

So what is a "discerning customer" I ask myself? Undecided  I think most people would chose their ISP by checking them out to see if they are reliable and within their price range.
My first experience was Tiscali, because a friend recommended it.  I had no previous experience of ISPs.  Very soon, I was getting problems with Tiscali (slow speeds and dropping connections) and I migrated to Pipex, having checked them out on the Internet.  They were a great ISP - and then Tiscali took them over (more slow speeds and dropping connections!).  I came to Plusnet on the recommendation of another friend, but not without checking them out first.
I think price-wise Plusnet is charging around the same as most of the popular ISPs.  The one thing which worries me about them trying to get more Tiscali customers to sign up is the possibility of over-crowding of the servers.  I hope that does not happen.  There must come a point where you either don't take any more people on, or you provide more servers otherwise all the customers will suffer.