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Thanks, Gran: your overpriced landline is funding our cheap broadband deals

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Thanks, Gran: your overpriced landline is funding our cheap broadband deals

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/business/money/Consumer/article1672289.ece (paywalled)
Quote
ELDERLY customers are being exploited as telephone companies raise landline charges despite a fall in the cost of maintaining the lines, experts said last week.
In the five years to December 2015, BT raised its landline rental prices by 23%, Sky by 44%, Virgin Media by 34% and TalkTalk by 33%, the regulator Ofcom said in a report last week. Yet over the same period the “wholesale” costs of landlines fell by 21%.
One in 10 households have a landline but no internet. The vast majority of these are pensioners who lose out because line rental costs are soaring to subsidise cheap deals for broadband, which they do not use. Ofcom said about 60% of “voice-only” customers are over 75.

Let us hope that this starts the ball rolling to get rid of the unfair pricing system
28 REPLIES
rongtw
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Re: Thanks, Gran: your overpriced landline is funding our cheap broadband deals

Lets hope so Jim  Wink
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Re: Thanks, Gran: your overpriced landline is funding our cheap broadband deals

most of the "land lines" have been in the same position/condition since they were put up originally.... so the cost of "maintaining" those bits of wire is absolute zero...
The charge was acceptable when the new line was put in to a house, and should have been ended after ( say ) a period of 5 years... 
About time that "ofcon" told BT and the rest of them, that they should stop this blatant theft from customers, where there is no substantial cost to them, the charge should be ended forthwith.
If a line requires to be replaced, due to "wear and tear".. then the consumer should be given a price, and the payment could be over a number of months ( even years ) added on to the phone bill.
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Re: Thanks, Gran: your overpriced landline is funding our cheap broadband deals

I rarely use my landline these days. I have a good mobile package from O2 and that gives me more than enough minutes so really don't use a landline.
rongtw
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Re: Thanks, Gran: your overpriced landline is funding our cheap broadband deals

Me too artmo , i have  O2 mobile , which works out cheaper than PN line rental which i dont use ! but i cant get a FTTC without a phone line  Crazy
So we have to pay BT for what we dont use
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nanotm
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Re: Thanks, Gran: your overpriced landline is funding our cheap broadband deals

isn't the rental price based around the power costs of the exchange + street cabs /number of lines and then a small portion added on top for the cost of replacing a line and a couple of quid a month towards the investment for the future (fibre upgrade rollout)
I know BT were told to front load the line rental to pay for the countries broad band  upgrade program via its users ...
I don't mind the fact we have a line rental but I do think its a liberty for them to charge it and refuse to replace the busted up ancient stop gap wires they fitted in the past because something went wrong back then and it was all the cable they had available...
if I pay for the line rental then I expect to get the best quality possible not something that's barely getting a signal, I also thing its a liberty for them to still enforce the per MB charge for data when the average person uses several gigabytes of data possibly even terabytes, they should go through all those contracts and change them to reflect modernisation and rewrite them to charges per petabyte (and on fibre systems it costs less per petabyte than it did on copper systems) but tis a bit of a liberty levelling those charges anyway given that your charged the line rental to provide the power to the system in the first place why do you also need a separate broadband access charge ? the phone /bb all goes down one circuit so the charges should reflect reality and not BT groups profiteering requirements
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
itsme
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Re: Thanks, Gran: your overpriced landline is funding our cheap broadband deals

What a load of rubbish yet again.
nadger
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Re: Thanks, Gran: your overpriced landline is funding our cheap broadband deals

I'm another who could easily survive without a land line so add me to list of octogenarians subbing cheap broadband offers to attract churn
Three gives me 200 mins and basically unlimited calls to other Three users which covers daily calls to and from our daughter who also uses Three
nanotm
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Re: Thanks, Gran: your overpriced landline is funding our cheap broadband deals

Quote from: itsme
What a load of rubbish yet again.

you disagree that some years back the commons select committee told BT they were not getting the  circa £2billion handout they asked for to implement the fibre upgrade and were told to add money to the price of line rental to raise it themselves from the nation ?
or perhaps you disagree with my personal opinion on what paying the line rental should entail ?
or perhaps you disagree with my thoughts on how they should change the data billing system from the one implemented in the 1980's when a MB was a lot of data where now it doesn't even cover the handshake ?
or you disagree with what the line rental breakdown is supposed to be (according to historic breakdowns for consumers in the press over past years)?
or perhaps you disagree with the idea that the data portion of the service should be free since we are already paying for the cost of running the damn network through line rental and as its always on it probably costs more to run the hardware to monitor the service than it does to run the service ....
seems to me like they have been making a lot of money for essentially the same thing and they don't even have the argument of employing all the people they did in the past since most of them are contractors now....
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
itsme
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Re: Thanks, Gran: your overpriced landline is funding our cheap broadband deals

Think you need to separate Openreach from BT, and then read what Oldjim posted.
Wholesale prices have decreased but all providers have increased their line rental with VirginMedia more than BT.
Openreach wholesale pa prices exc VAT are £89.50 decreasing to £86.72 in April
The article is about providers increasing line rentals to subsidise broadband which the evidence seem to support.
nanotm
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Re: Thanks, Gran: your overpriced landline is funding our cheap broadband deals

Quote from: itsme
The article is about providers increasing line rentals to subsidise broadband which the evidence seem to support.

which as I pointed out is down to the fact the data side of the business is still based on the price model from the 1980's back when very little data was transmitted, the cost of broadband should be 1/3rd of the cost it was before fibre upgrade to reflect the lower cost of providing it not increasing as the amount of data transmitte does.
it literally costs less to send a terabyte of data from the UK to the new York along the fibre trunk than it costs to sent a gigabyte across a copper trunk 50 miles long so why is the price calculated in megabytes based on the copper system being applied to the carriers for the fibre backbone ?

because someone is profiteering.... and due to the constant push to split things up there is zero transparency in costs or profits...... yet ofcon prefers to ignore the truth and concentrate on fallacies about service levels, the companies pushing for breakup of open reach are doing so because they know this is the problem and they will then be able to rake in the profits in a similar fashion to the way BT is doing by charging ISP's a per MB fee for terabytes of data transmitted across the network, something that will get worse the bigger the stream capabilities become.
it doesn't matter how the ISP's breakdown their pricing model to over charge consumers in one section to fund another section of service provision, unless the crux of the problem is tackled it will just keep getting worse as data usage keeps increasing.
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
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Re: Thanks, Gran: your overpriced landline is funding our cheap broadband deals

Quote from: nanotm
you disagree that some years back the commons select committee told BT they were not getting the  circa £2billion handout they asked for to implement the fibre upgrade and were told to add money to the price of line rental to raise it themselves from the nation ?

The Commons Select Committee has no power to set rates. Ofcom regulate the supplier and decide on its charging policy.
nanotm
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Re: Thanks, Gran: your overpriced landline is funding our cheap broadband deals

I was referring to the fact that BT went cap in hand asking for between 1 .5 and 2 billion to the commons select committee in order to achieve the governments aims in respect of  broadband to everyone and was told to rod off and increase charges ... not how much to add on or anything else
but if I recall it was originally £2 they added to the basic price of line rental to raise capital to pay for the fibre roll out (which caused the project start to be delayed by several years) and ended up being so behind the original schedule they had to steal bandwidth from across the nation in order for the world press to get the connections it needed for the Olympics, an event which itself also added delays to rolling out fibre in non Olympic event areas ....
Ofcon as you say has to agree such price changes and iirc they suggested rather than a single price hike a phased approach to be implemented over several years that would be better to allow for price changes in doing the work and of course should new tech become available allow for it to be used....
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
Community Veteran
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Re: Thanks, Gran: your overpriced landline is funding our cheap broadband deals

Quote
but if I recall it was originally £2 they added to the basic price of line rental to raise capital to pay for the fibre roll out
I am sure you can provide evidence for that assertion given this https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/pricing/loadProductPriceDetails.do?data=vZC%2BGHIiu80...
nanotm
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Re: Thanks, Gran: your overpriced landline is funding our cheap broadband deals

I cant be bothered to waste more time looking it up but there was this from 7 years ago http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1193293/Every-household-Britain-hit-new-6-broadband-tax-fund...
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you