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Some people just cannot let go

Minivanman
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Some people just cannot let go

At least not if the Guardian has anything to do with it.

What's wrong with these people? You lost the vote so get over it, and move on, or move over!

 

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/sep/10/european-union-flags-handed-out-last-night-of-the-prom...

All views expressed are my own but you can express them too if you want to be right about everything like I am.
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Re: Some people just cannot let go

Shame I wasn't there, could have used that stick they put the flags on in the garden... Grin

 

Would have thrown the EU flag in the bin though... Tongue

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Re: Some people just cannot let go

Regardless of who won or lost, Brexit will be all but impossible to enact mainly because of the Good Friday Agreement, which took years to negotiate and from which none of the participating parties will shift. The GFA has brought a lasting time of quiet after the troubles and nobody, but nobody will scrap it. This means that free passage between the ROI and NI will remain, which will make a mockery of the scrapping free-border movement between the EU and the UK, which Leavers want. The only way out of this would be for NI to leave the UK, and again there is zero political will to do this on either side.

 

If some kind of political will does actually achieve an unravelling of the thousand of existing agreements, it will take at least a decade (if not more) to sort it out. That's how long it took to make the agreements in the first place and they are all heavily intertwined. That it the reality.

Minivanman
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Re: Some people just cannot let go

The Good Friday agreement?  Well that's an argument I've heard before for not leaving the EU!

Time to let Ireland go, the same way we are going to let the EU go and if it takes ten years or whatever then so be it. Best get started and the sooner the better. 

Ireland for the Irish, Britain for the British! Wink

All views expressed are my own but you can express them too if you want to be right about everything like I am.
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Re: Some people just cannot let go

That's fine, no problem. The only difficulty is that, like I said, there is zero political will to do it. 

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Re: Some people just cannot let go


Minivanman wrote:

The Good Friday agreement?  Well that's an argument I've heard before for not leaving the EU!

Time to let Ireland go, the same way we are going to let the EU go and if it takes ten years or whatever then so be it. Best get started and the sooner the better. 

Ireland for the Irish, Britain for the British! Wink


I agree with that.

I am not Irish but let us assume the roles had been reversed, that Ireland ruled England, we protested about it through demonstrations and civil disorder so they send troops here and during the disturbances   a few English men get shot, how would the rest of the population feel and what would  some of them do about it.

Let me be clear I make no excuse for the IRA or those who plant bombs to kill innocent people but the point I am trying to make, is conflict the only way forward, why not let Ireland rule itself ?

If that course had been taken years ago think of the thousands of lives that would have been saved.

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Re: Some people just cannot let go

That doesn't get round the political problem which the GFA presents. 

The fact of the matter is that we ALL have been conned by a bunch of feuding public schoolboys into believing that making a change as big as leaving the EU will be easy and quick, or even possible. This leave/remain argument within the Tory party has been around for a long time and goes back to their ETON school days; what Cameron did was to try to get one up on the other bunch believing that the country would vote to remain. The consequences will be significant.

 

It took Greenland more than three years to renegotiate their one agreement with the EU (concerning fish), and it will take enormously more time to renegotiate the hundreds (thousands?) of agreements between the UK and the EU. Australia has just said it will not enter into any formal agreement talks with us until it knows exactly what the UK will be left with after Brexit, and if they have any sense neither will any other country. That will leave us in an extremely vulnerable position.

No wonder Cameron cleared off! Best of luck Mrs May!

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Re: Some people just cannot let go

@nozzer

That's all very negative talk.

You appear to be unaware of choose to ignore exactly what is going on in Europe, most of those countries have much higher levels of unemployment than us, some are in such debt they can never hope to pay it off and Brussels chooses to ignore the wishes of the majority with the result the far right are gaining ground.

I can understand other countries not wanting to make arrangements with us regarding trade until we formally leave the EU but at least we can directly work with other countries to fix trade deals.

There was some silly article in todays paper suggesting we would need visas if travelling to the EU, what nonsense, so of those EU countries rely mainly on holiday makers for their income.

I would put all these scare stories and speculation to the back  of your mind and revisit it again in 10 years, but in my opinion the EU will not exist in 10 Years time, if I am wrong I will be happy to apologise for the error but do not expect to be here myself in 10 Years.

Smiley

Luzern
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Re: Some people just cannot let go

Never say never of the possibility of something happening. We humans, supposedly the most intelligent of beings, can do the stupidest of things. Metaphorically we cut off our noses to spite our faces, and I sometimes doubt we will never get as far as morphing the metaphorical in to  the real.

It's worrying how some Leavers dismiss any criticism or suggestion of the problems of our exit from the EU as moaning or worse, and accuse all of wanting to renege on the referendum vote. Yes, that may be true for a few, but are Leavers incapable of seeing that, Remainers or Leavers, we all need to make the process a success, and keep a united country.

Not noted as in any way a friend of the EU Christopher Booker writes of the problems, that the Brexiteers seem unaware.

No one has to agree with my opinion, but in the time I have left a miracle would be nice.
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Re: Some people just cannot let go


nozzer wrote:

which will make a mockery of the scrapping free-border movement between the EU and the UK, which Leavers want.


Steady on there nozzer, I think it's merely a reduction of immigration and asylum that the leavers want. We're a small island with limited resources that keep being dedicated to those from foreign lands - many of which support a religion that despises our way of life.

We will not see the end of free movement in the holiday sense, we'll just end up with similar arrangements to Norway.

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Re: Some people just cannot let go

Back on topic the remainers handing out EU flags at the Last Night of the Proms last night made real fools of themselves! I didn't see any impact from the one or two EU flags in evidence and they were totally absent in the Park, Belfast, Edinburgh and Cardiff. I did think the ABBC would do something stupid like refusing to put up the words for Jerusalem and Rule Britannia but they were there and the singing was brilliant. I was happy to see Scottish, Irish, Welch flags along with Japanese German, Danish and a few others. That was more inclusive and friendly that the stupid stunt of waving the EU flag which was intended to antagonise 

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Re: Some people just cannot let go

@Luzern

You are right, we can never be certain of anything except for tax and death as someone once said.

Even the best of ideas can turn into something completely different, I am sure that those who started the Labour party could never envisage it would turn out into what it is now.

The same applies to Britexit but life is about making choices, some turn out to be good as some bad, look at those who get married, they are both certain it's the right thing but sadly it turns out not to be.

Who knows  what the future holds ?

All things change in Time.

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Re: Some people just cannot let go

Gleneagles I think you've got it right in your previous post, I don't think the EU will survive 10 years and however long it takes I'm glad we've signalled that we are leaving the sinking ship. iMHO the minimum acceptible scenario is no trade deal with the EU and applying WTO rules but not paying any contributions. That would be better for us than membership. Any negotiated position has got to improve on this, but that option is always there if negotiations are taking too long
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Minivanman
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Re: Some people just cannot let go

And now we have rumblings of visa requirements. What's going on? Sour grapes from the EU methinks. Come to Europe from say NZ and no visa required, so how does that work eh.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/11/british-holidaymakers-could-be-forced-to-pay-to-travel-to...

And here's another beef of mine (and British of course) and not that it matters now, but why did expats have the right to vote in that referendum. Consider that if there should be no taxation with representation then it's axiomatic that there should be no representation with taxation. No 'subs' at the club, not vote on committee members.

Simples. 

All views expressed are my own but you can express them too if you want to be right about everything like I am.
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Re: Some people just cannot let go

From a reply on the Times Website - I haven't checked if it is true

Citizens of at least 50 countries -- including, eg, Japan, Singapore, Brazil, Mexico, New Zealand, USA, Canada -- do not require visas for tourist travel to EU countries. Why does anyone assume British people will be required to have visas if citizens from so many other countries do not?