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So what does this say about our power infrastructure

Minivanman
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Re: So what does this say about our power infrastructure

Would this be the same Frankly that is criticised by environmental groups as the biggest net exporter of coal, three quarters of which is exported, with the balance used to generate electricity?

 

wotsup
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Re: So what does this say about our power infrastructure


@nozzer wrote:

@wotsup 

Two things...  Max generation time at Dinorwig is five hours....

https://www.electricmountain.co.uk/Dinorwig-Power-Station

 

and you don't shut down wind turbines when the wind is strong, you feather the blades so that the resistance to air flow is limited and generation regulated to rated output.


Up to a certain wind speed they can alter angle of attack of blades to control output,  but if wind is gusting over 50mph they normally completely feather the blades to reduce the chances of the whole thing blowing over,  and they engage a brake on the rotor to prevent over-speeding and normally a fire in the sky LOL

https://www.wind-watch.org/news/2019/02/20/high-winds-topple-turbine/

 

 

8BKA
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Re: So what does this say about our power infrastructure

I wrote

Seems like the fault was automatic load shedding due the frequency dropping but it will be interesting to find out exactly what happened

This is what NG are saying

Why did parts of the grid shut down?

The National Grid has to maintain an electrical frequency of 50Hz. When supply falls and demand remains high, the frequency drops - to 48.9Hz in this case, well below the accepted level.

The wrong frequency can be dangerous, says Mr Hunter, causing damage to the UK electricity infrastructure.

National Grid says its automated systems kick in to stop any damage, chiefly by cutting off parts of the grid to reduce overall demand.

 

With no coal fired power stations now on line and approx. 30% Wind 14% Solar we were very lucky it was not a Friday afternoon in winter where the max demand is about that time it would be very close to a Black Start

This is worth a look you can see where the Grid supplies are coming from Imports from abroad you may find it interesting

https://gridwatch.co.uk/

Brian A

 

Minivanman
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Re: So what does this say about our power infrastructure

I've always imagined how cool it would be if when arriving in Calais, off in the distance would be a giant model of a French electric plug with a cable running into the sea. 

They already have one of the huge boring machines which were used for grinding it's way under and across the channel on display further down the coast, so why not?

Sounds like a plan. Thumbs Up

 

ffox
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Re: So what does this say about our power infrastructure

I thought I heard this on the radio yesterday so checked up and found confirmation in The Independent.  I believe it refers to the new trains on Thameslink and Great Northern.

"The trains have been affected by the power outage to the point where they require a technician to restart them. As this will take time, we are beginning to evacuate some of the trains that are stranded outside platforms. Our advice to customers is to stay on board trains for their own safety."

So after the power comes back on the train driver can't get it going again, but has to wait for a technician to come and do it!  What a miracle of design - the mind boggles. Shocked

 

Minivanman
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Re: So what does this say about our power infrastructure

Starting handle, that's what's needed.

Handy for getting it going, and handy for dealing with irate passengers! 

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Re: So what does this say about our power infrastructure

Electric trains that have to be "started"?? I thought it'd be a flick of a switch, some big ol' relays kicking in and off they go, but to need a technician to come along and "start" the train?!?! Blummin' heck, what moron came up with that design? Funny

wotsup
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Re: So what does this say about our power infrastructure


@twocvbloke wrote:

Electric trains that have to be "started"?? I thought it'd be a flick of a switch, some big ol' relays kicking in and off they go, but to need a technician to come along and "start" the train?!?! Blummin' heck, what moron came up with that design? Funny


Nothing simple with modern technology,  used to have the pleasure of restarting a factory full of automated equipment and robots after power failures - what a PITA...

Minivanman
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Re: So what does this say about our power infrastructure

@twocvbloke 

The union shop steward? Roll eyes

Champnet
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Re: So what does this say about our power infrastructure

Is it that the device cannot automatically start or has it been decided that an qualified human must be present to tick the box and press the button... 

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Re: So what does this say about our power infrastructure

Definitely sounds like a case of making work where none is necessary, imagine having to have a Tesla dealer mechanic come out to switch on your shiny new Tesla electric car every time you wanted to go to the shops? Funny

jab1
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Re: So what does this say about our power infrastructure

It is more likely that an unplanned 'emergency stop' has triggered safety switches - these trains don't usually require technicians to start them if they have been shut down normally at the end of a trip.

John
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Re: So what does this say about our power infrastructure

I'd love to have been a fly on the wall at the design meetings, I wonder how the reaction to someone asking "What if the grid power were to fail while the train is in operation?", and some complacent person goes "Nah, that'll never happen, it'll do!" not thinking that maybe it might be worth having some batteries on board to power the train when the grid is not powered just to keep thins "online" for when the power returns, kind of like a UPS for a computer... Grin

Luzern
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Re: So what does this say about our power infrastructure


@Minivanman wrote:

Starting handle, that's what's needed.

Handy for getting it going, and handy for dealing with irate passengers! 


@Minivanman  When there's a live rail about? Not the place to drop a clanger.Funny

Being in the wild west, you wouldn't necessarily know the trains are bi-mode, able to accept both DC at ~700 v and over head AC  at much higher voltage. I wonder if that could be a factor.

There are even more complex modalities including diesel.

No one has to agree with my opinion, but in the time I have left a miracle would be nice.
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wotsup
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Re: So what does this say about our power infrastructure

It is a safely feature of equipment that it should not start automatically after a fault - it needs a positive action or a number of steps to restart it.