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Smart Meters - Government now blackmailing the public....

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Champion
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Re: Smart Meters - Government now blackmailing the public....


@twocvbloke wrote:

@TTman wrote:

@twocvbloke Thanks for that,explains what I was saying. What I should add is that smart meters also send their data  by mobile signal so if you have a bad or no signal for the right provider they will not work...well thoughtout hasnt it!!🤣


 

I think some smart meter operators will have another option for that, such as a meter with a wifi module which can connect to your wifi network, but if you're in an area with poor mobile signal, it's unlikely you have anything more than dialup given Openreach's very closed reach... 😂


Nope and if you think about it logically, you'd think of several reasons why they wouldn't use the householder's WiFi network.

 

ISTR it's actually Zigbee they use to create a 'PAN' for the meters and in-home displays to communicate and can and do supply extenders/repeaters if required to mitigate signal issues.

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Re: Smart Meters - Government now blackmailing the public....


@TTman wrote:

@twocvbloke Thanks for that,explains what I was saying. What I should add is that smart meters also send their data  by mobile signal so if you have a bad or no signal for the right provider they will not work...well thoughtout hasnt it!!🤣


 

Actually, in many parts of the country they use Arqiva's long range radio network

 

https://www.arqiva.com/overviews/smart-metering/smart-metering/

 

 

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Re: Smart Meters - Government now blackmailing the public....

Well however it all works, I'm just glad I don't have to touch the disintegrating gas meter box any more, getting that fibreglass in my hands is nasty... 😂

 

Of course I say that and I'm often having to deal with my uncle's meter next door, because he's too impatient with it (it's a card meter) and always blames it for him not holding button A for long enough...

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Re: Smart Meters - Government now blackmailing the public....


@TTman wrote:

What I should add is that smart meters also send their data  by mobile signal so if you have a bad or no signal for the right provider they will not work...well thoughtout hasnt it!!🤣


 

And just to add what I posted above ^ those that use GSM/LTE aren't just reliant on a single network either...

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Re: Smart Meters - Government now blackmailing the public....

The people who benefit most from smart meters are the suppliers, who no longer have to employ meter readers,  but do they pass the savings on - do they F ( see swearing on TV thread )........

 

There was an energy expert on a few years ago who said quite plainly that without differential pricing smart meters are a waste of time - and he wouldn't be getting one.  Mind you with solar energy the tariff 7 off-peak rate has gone west - electricity more likely to increase in price at night now - and remind me again when most people will want to charge their BEV ?  These meters have been introduced in the normal c4ck-handed way the UK does things,  like we have the worst DAB system, other countries use existing power lines to transmit signals from smart meters. Replacing road islands with traffic lights, in one new stretch of road by us there are 6 sets of traffic lights in less than a mile of road - imagine your stop-start battery will be flat by the time you have driven along that short stretch.

Read an article the other day that UK is fast losing its status as the invention capital of the world,  measuring the number of patents filed each year we are now plummeting towards the bottom of the table.. According to Santander report we are now in 9th place with about 3000 patents last year, just 10 ahead of Iran,  and 8th placed Italy had double our total. 

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Re: Smart Meters - Government now blackmailing the public....

But nanny state will provide for us all, because nanny state (who makes up these daft laws, policies and anti-common sense rules) knows best!!! 🤣

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Re: Smart Meters - Government now blackmailing the public....

It only makes sense to have these fancy meters if you are going to introduce differential pricing.

So that at times of high demand, electricity (and gas) will be more expensive - of course this makes it virtually impossible to sensibly reduce consumption of electricity since there would be no real relation between price and consumption.

"In The Beginning Was The Word, And The Word Was Aardvark."

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Anonymous
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Re: Smart Meters - Government now blackmailing the public....

Isn't the concept of differential pricing flawed. It only make sense to the consumer when they know what times the higher tarrif will be in effect so they can opt to reduce their demand and thus decrease their bill at the higher tariff. But if the majority of people knew this and took the appropriate steps it only serves to move the demand time horizon. Great if it works out and the load's spread evenly through the course of the day but I doubt this will ever be the case.

One option horrible thought would be to have all such devices on the IoT so that you could load your washing machine, dish washer, tumble dryer etc and have the network turn in to for you. But I for one wouldn't want that, not just the IoT but I wouldn't want my dryer running at some random time in the morning.

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Re: Smart Meters - Government now blackmailing the public....

Then you go out, your dryer switches on and sets fire to your house.

"In The Beginning Was The Word, And The Word Was Aardvark."

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Re: Smart Meters - Government now blackmailing the public....

Differential pricing ( tariff 7 etc ) worked well with conventional generating methods because power stations could not be shut down overnight, so there was an oversupply at night.  These days with random power supply from unreliable sources we are in new territory and it is so hard to get reliable power.. The Germans found out that as long as renewables are <25% of your network it is OK, but go above that and you are in trouble... Smart meters are helpful for people who don't know that their kettle uses more power than an LED light bulb,  but for the majority of people just mean they don't have to bother e-mailing a reading to their supplier 4 times a year...   maybe if smart meters had add-on modules to be able to shed water heating at peak times ( and our dozy government is even planning to ban has boilers for household heating, which means some houses will need 18 to 30 kw for that job or expensive capital cost of ground source heatpumps etc )..

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Grafter
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Re: Smart Meters - Government now blackmailing the public....

Smart meter aren't a panacea and are relatively expensive compared to dumb (mechanical) meters but:

1 They should reduce incorrect billing, which is one of the main source of complains for users and supplier

2 They provide immediate consumption/cost feedback which will help the small proportion of people that don't know what items use most power (or even that ones that have left the heater on in the basement).

3 They eliminate the cost of manual meter reading, although that is very low (c£2 per year) as most companies use predictive billing.

4 They will enable consumers to choose to have 'demand management'. Contrary to some comments here, that will be like economy 7 only more flexible. It will allow energy companies to avoid expensive 'peak demand' generation and share those savings with the customer - if you choose to participate. So, for example, your fridge could switch of for 2-3 minutes (no problem with food spoiling, or you could put your washing machine on overnight, and it could come on and finish so the cost is lowest. They will promote this by explaining the cost savings, just as Easyjet lets you know that flying on a Thursday afternoon may be cheaper than Friday evening.
All the Daily Mail panic stuff is just to sell newspapers.

They use 3G/4G because most places have it. Power line communication is often more difficult as power lines are very noisy and equipment would have to be sited at the substation and possibly in between.

I'm not a great fan of Smart Meters but I have them fitted and have never had any problem. Not something to fret about.

 

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Re: Smart Meters - Government now blackmailing the public....


@AlFox wrote:

Smart meter aren't a panacea and are relatively expensive compared to dumb (mechanical) meters but:

1 They should reduce incorrect billing, which is one of the main source of complains for users and supplier

 

Note the operational word  " Should" in the above statement...

So, not a reason for the government to force the consumer to have a silent spy fitted to their supply

 

 

2 They provide immediate consumption/cost feedback which will help the small proportion of people that don't know what items use most power (or even that ones that have left the heater on in the basement).

 

So... because a " small proportion of people"... can`t figure out that a full kettle of water costs more to heat up than only a cupful, when you make A cup of tea or A cup of coffee... then the majority of consumers must be forced to have a silent spy fitted to their supply

 

 

3 They eliminate the cost of manual meter reading, although that is very low (c£2 per year) as most companies use predictive billing.

 

 the electric and gas companies DO have to make regular inspections of their equipment.

Also, many, like myself, prefer to read their own meter, and forward the readings on line.. so there is no cost involved to the company... but still the government are forcing those consumers to have a silent spy fitted to their supply.

 

4 They will enable consumers to choose to have 'demand management'.

 

What is "demand management"   I`m guessing you are alluding to the supply company being able to charge more or less due to the time of day/demand on their system.. ( as you outline below )

  so not an advantage to the consumer..

. and not something the can "choose" as an option, more likely, to be forced on them after the government has forced everyone to have a silent spy fitted to their supply

 

Contrary to some comments here, that will be like economy 7 only more flexible. It will allow energy companies to avoid expensive 'peak demand' generation and share those savings with the customer - if you choose to participate. So, for example, your fridge could switch of for 2-3 minutes (no problem with food spoiling,

 

My fridge and my two freezers, work on a thermostat controlling the temperature... so I don`t see how the power companies can use that as a consumer advantage.

or you could put your washing machine on overnight, and it could come on and finish so the cost is lowest.

 

Providing of course, that, you do not sleep lightly, on the same floor as your washing machine.... and ... who wants a washing machine, or drier, setting fire to itself, whilst you are in the land of nod ? 

 

They will promote this by explaining the cost savings,  

 

Oh yeah ? ?  will they also cover the cost of replacing your abode, due to the fire, caused because the supply company switched on your drier during the night, when there was nothing in it ? 

 

just as Easyjet lets you know that flying on a Thursday afternoon may be cheaper than Friday evening.

Easyjet have never contacted me about that..... Will they do that when I get a "smart" meter  ?  Nah... didn`t think so...


All the Daily Mail panic stuff is just to sell newspapers.

 

We all know that..... doesn`t need a scientific expert to tell us ! ! ..

 

They use 3G/4G because most places have it. Power line communication is often more difficult as power lines are very noisy and equipment would have to be sited at the substation and possibly in between

Interestingly, there are electronics that can remove noise from power lines.... generally they are covered by the term "NoiseFilter"...  they have been around for many years... I have a 1950`s radio with Noise Filters fitted as standard....  so not impossible to design for the "power line" usage....

 

I'm not a great fan of Smart Meters but I have them fitted and have never had any problem. Not something to fret about.

 


I`m not fretting about the actual meter.... more about being forced by the government to install a silent spy, when I am quite smart enough to read my meter once a month on a set date and send the reading to the supply company on their website. who then send me an invoice, which I pay through on line banking... and to quote from your last line...

" have never had any problem" 

 

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Re: Smart Meters - Government now blackmailing the public....

I suppose if it works then fine and if not, then don't have one.

They are not compulsory although I can see a time when those that do not have them will be presented to a fait accompli as with so much else such as the decline in cash or the posting of cheques. 

As with water meters, we'll have to go with the flow. 😊

 

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Re: Smart Meters - Government now blackmailing the public....

Funny thing earlier, I was rooting round behind my desktop PC to retrieve a tube of escaped Polo mints, and found the "In Home Display" I got when the meters were fitted, showing how "useful" it actually was considering I didn't exactly miss it, when the app I have for the meters does the same, minus the live update silliness... 😂