Should they stay... or should they go.

[#1]

This new Independent Group seems to be gaining ground, the latest news being that a couple of more MP's are about to defect - but should they all resign as members of their respective parties which would of course cause a by-election. Surely, if they feel that strongly (and I have no doubt that they do) then why not test those convictions by standing as Independents whilst at the same time testing the fortunes of their rivals.

Seems to me they are occupying those green benches on false pretences otherwise. 

PS. Let's keep this a Brexit free zone... if we can :rolleyes:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/21/two-senior-tories-ready-to-resign-if-may-fails-to-c...

[#2]

I would assume they did not resign as MP and trigger by-elections because a significant portion of the electorate appear to always vote for the same party.

Conservative voters vote Conservative, Labour voters vote Labour etc

It does not seem to matter what the candidates put in their manifestos.:sad:

[#3]

@Minivanman I agree, resigning the party membership and crossing the Parliamentary floor should force a by-election but these mobile MPs could argue they were voted to power to represent their constituents, this status hasn’t changed. Unfortunately a lot of people vote for the party not the individual.

[#4]

@Minivanman

Apologies for tainting your thread, but it's difficult not to mention Brexit when the group in question are basically 'Remoaners Inc.'

But yes, I feel they should call by-elections.

Has anybody analysed how the constituencies of the individual deserters voted in the Referendum?

Edit: typo

[#5]

Their actions can only be described as "Party Politics"... which has nowt to do with "People`s Politics"...

Obviously, they ain`t gonna resign, cos that would mean losing "status"... and "privelige" and of course CASH  ( or credit in their voluminous bank accounts ) and of course, they might have to look for a real job, and have to "work for a living"   :shocked:

[#6]

@Minivanman

p.s.  Welcome back to the forum ! !  :wink:

[#7]

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@shutter wrote:

Their actions can only be described as "Party Politics"... which has nowt to do with "People`s Politics"...

Obviously, they ain`t gonna resign, cos that would mean losing "status"... and "privilege" and of course CASH  ( or credit in their voluminous bank accounts ) and of course, they might have to look for a real job, and have to "work for a living"   :shocked:

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Quite correct, and having read the 'who are they' piece on the BBC website, I can honestly say I recognise 3 of the 11, and reading the 'founding statement', they sound very woolly. As they sound (to me) a bit like the SDP, I'll give them as much credibility as that party, and ignore them until they come up with some more concrete ideas.

[#8]

Our constituency voted 61-39% to leave the EU, our MP is a staunch remainer, this shows party politics overrules the people vote.  One wonders what was the point of a referendum ? Easier to have had a show of hands in Parliament....

[#9]

@Champnet This being "politics"..... Do you really think that politicians EVER show their hands, ... either IN or OUT of parliament        ?

[#10]

You are selected to stand for a party and get elected by a majority of those who support that party.

There must be times when a MP does not agree with the party and should therefore abstain from voting or even speaking against  that particular issue but to no longer support a party and stand as a independent should result in a byelection.

Otherwise those who voted for you are not being represented.

I have no issue with MPs who wish to stand as independents, indeed I would make the lot of them stand as independents and scrap all this party political stuff with each MP making it clear before being elected exactly what they did or did not support, so come the next election we would know whether or not to vote for them again.

@Minivanman

Where have you been ?

I usually have a couple of weeks holidays....guess you must have been on a world cruise !

:smiley:

[#11]

Under our system, at least in theory, each person votes for the candidate he wishes to serve for all persons in the constituency. The winner becomes the member for all its population. The concept that he must resign on change of alliance does not fit with the idea, which is as representative of the people with an ability and right to think and act independently.

Affiliations were only added some time after WW2. I don't know why, but maybe it was to increase turnout. If that was it, it may have worked, but to the detriment of unaligned independent candidates IMO. I suggest that arose from easily swallowed socialist claims that indies were Tories in disguise.

As usual all changes bear unintended effects. Voter turn out has dropped, because MPs ae seen as the PBI for the parties' grandees. For some the labels have the same pull as the football clubs and their hooligan element, as once was.. With matters political it seems politics is tending to the same yah, boos and fists as the clubs' aficionados. Most folk don't wan to go there.

[#12]

If people vote for the person rather than the party why are there so many 'safe' seats with big majority guaranteed for a party -  seats where senior MPs are shoe horned in to guarantee their continuing election, and then there are marginal / swing seats with small majorities where the record / personality of the candidate may swing the vote..

If someone is voted in for a party and their manifesto and then decide to go and do their own thing they should face the electorate again for re-election, otherwise they cannot claim any mandate from the constituents to be MP for that constituency.

[#13]

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@shutter wrote:

Their actions can only be described as "Party Politics"... which has nowt to do with "People`s Politics"...

Obviously, they ain`t gonna resign, cos that would mean losing "status"... and "privelige" and of course CASH  ( or credit in their voluminous bank accounts ) and of course, they might have to look for a real job, and have to "work for a living"   :shocked:

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@shutter

In case you hadn't noticed, the first sentence of the letter they wrote to May was as follows, and contained the word "resigned"...

"It is with regret that we are writing to resign the Conservative whip and our membership of the Party.

"We voted for you as Leader and Prime Minister because we believed you were committed to a moderate, open-hearted Conservative Party in the One Nation tradition. A party of economic competence, representing the best of British business, delivering good jobs, opportunity and prosperity for all, funding world class public services and tackling inequalities. We had hoped you would also continue to modernise our party so that it could reach out and broaden its appeal to younger voters and to embrace and reflect the diversity of the communities we seek to represent.

This means that they have no parliamentary privileges at all, of any kind, and have been deselected by their party. An election will therefore be required at some point. 

[#14]

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@wotsup wrote:

If people vote for the person rather than the party why are there so many 'safe' seats with big majority guaranteed for a party -  seats where senior MPs are shoe horned in to guarantee their continuing election, and then there are marginal / swing seats with small majorities where the record / personality of the candidate may swing the vote..

If someone is voted in for a party and their manifesto and then decide to go and do their own thing they should face the electorate again for re-election, otherwise they cannot claim any mandate from the constituents to be MP for that constituency.

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The MP is the member for the constituency (population), not the party even though he affiliates himself to a party @wotsup. It's amusing how so many are willing to ignore others' who hold opposing views.

[#15]

I'm reminded of the time when our once local guy stood as an Independent for the Borough Council (based it must be said on a rather contentious local issue) and in a matter of weeks he joined the Labour party. He certainly ruffled a few feathers but when he stood again under the party banner he was elected again... and finished up as Mayor!