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Shaming of our bully banks: We DID intimidate customers with fake debt collectio

TORPC
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Shaming of our bully banks: We DID intimidate customers with fake debt collectio

Shaming of our bully banks: We DID intimidate customers with fake debt collection letters,
[quote= http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2745571/Shaming-bully-banks-We-DID-intimidate-customers-fake-debt-collection-letters-admit-bosses.html]The big banks sent hundreds of thousands of letters from fake debt collection firms to ‘intimidate’ customers.
HSBC, Barclays, Santander and RBS/Natwest admit using the trick on families deep in the red. The letters misleadingly suggest that law firms and outside debt collectors are being called in.
The admissions, which follow a campaign by the Daily Mail to highlight the scandal, came in a series of letters released last night by MPs. In one of them, the chief executive of Barclays confessed the bank had used a number of ‘debt collection brands’.

Why do these bullies, think they can get away with anything they throw our way
It is about time they were severely punished for making these decisions & all involved held accountable
21 REPLIES
nanotm
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Re: Shaming of our bully banks: We DID intimidate customers with fake debt collectio

its the same tactic that mobile phone companies used for years (some still do)
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
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Re: Shaming of our bully banks: We DID intimidate customers with fake debt collectio

I'm not sure what the issue is.
It is being suggested that the bank should now give compensation to those who haven't repaid their debt but got these letters - now there's a good idea. Take out a loan, don't pay it back, ignore the bank's letters, get more threatening letters then get compensation. Win Win - except for the respectable customers who will foot the bill - as always.
What punishment should the banks receive? A huge fine? Guess who will pay for that, too?
While I don't agree how the big banks have played with (squandered) our money over the years jumping on them over attempting to get debtors to repay seems a tad harsh.

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Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear - Mark Twain
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TORPC
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Re: Shaming of our bully banks: We DID intimidate customers with fake debt collectio

The banks admitted they were in the wrong, by sending details of false / fake companies, which (if not, should be against the law)
Therefore should be punishable
Now then
If they did not use the false / fake companies, then there would of been a non issue
nanotm
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Re: Shaming of our bully banks: We DID intimidate customers with fake debt collectio

its not the way they do the attempts at getting people to pay up that's the problem so much as it is the huge addition of fees that goes along with it, a few years ago I had a loan that I was forced to take ppi on (I was told point blank that I couldn't have it without ppi), 14 months later I lost my job and was no longer able to repay it (the ppi was still active) and I followed there direction on how ot activate the ppi, which ultimately said I didn't qualify for the cover .... subsequently the bank sent me a collection agency letter (from their in house agency) and had added all interst payable under the original loan terms + collection agency fees (almost as much as the loan's value) and also added in an admin charge for sending out the letter (almost a hundred quid)
by the time I received the letter I had already successfully applied for an IVA and no longer cared, but the super inflation of charges and fees by the bank lead to the debt tripling in the space of a few months, now as it turned out the IP in charge of my case was switched on to such matters and successfully obtained a reduction decision by the court so that I was only required to repay 20p for every pound owed, which in reality meant I was making 90p in the pound repayment with interest accruing over a 5 year period, fortunately that was some years before the ppi miss selling thing kicked off the entirety of my remaining debt was written off (compo claim filed by the IP) so whilst I didn't personally gain anything monetarily I was left in a much better situation, in reality though in having the payment protection insurance I should never have been left insolvent in the first place
but personal circumstances aside many people have in the past committed self harm because of such letters coming at a time when they are so far past financial sanity they are no longer rational, one case I read about years ago a guy put his car on jacks then started the engine and put it in first gear before lying under the vehicle and kicking the jack out just so he could collect insurance money for accidental injury and then pay off his debts ....... totally stupid but when your backs against the wall what is left but stupidity .....
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
TORPC
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Re: Shaming of our bully banks: We DID intimidate customers with fake debt collectio

For Example(s):
[quote= http://www.hsbc.co.uk/1/PA_esf-ca-app-content/content/uk/pdfs/en/your_information.pdf]4.3. If you give us false or inaccurate information and fraud is identified,
details will be passed to fraud prevention agencies to prevent fraud
and money laundering.
[quote= http://www.santander.co.uk/csdlvlr/BlobServer?blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobkey=id&blobcol=urldata&blobheader=application%2Fpdf&blobheadervalue1=inline%3Bfilename%3DPDF-MISC0015.pdf&blobwhere=1314009998941&blobheadername1=Content-Disposition]If
you give us false or inaccurate information and fraud is identified,
details will be sent to fraud prevention agencies. Law enforcement
agencies may access and use this information.
[quote= https://www.sharestore.barclays.co.uk/helpfiles/BSLTsAndCsHelp.htm]3.3.5. You understand that if you give false or inaccurate information or we suspect fraud we will record this with credit reference and fraud prevention agencies. The records may be used to help make a decision on you on credit, motor, household, life and other insurance facilities (including handling any claims), for debt tracing and to prevent fraud and money laundering.  You understand that records held by credit agencies may be linked to records held about a person financially associated with you and this application may be assessed by reference to any of these ‘associated’ records.
[quote= http://www.rbs.co.uk/personal/students/england-and-wales/legal.ashx]If false or inaccurate information is provided and fraud is identified or suspected, details may be passed to fraud prevention agencies.
[quote= https://www.natwest.com/content/global_options/terms/Terms_Conditions.pdf]1.5.1 If false or inaccurate information is provided and fraud is identified or suspected, details may
be passed to fraud prevention agencies. Law enforcement agencies may access and use this
information.

So why do they not adhere to their own ruling(s) ?Huh
[quote= www.cps.gov.uk/legal/d_to_g/fraud_act/]The Offences
Section 1 creates a general offence of fraud and introduces three ways of committing it set out in Sections 2, 3 and 4.
Fraud by false representation (Section 2);
Fraud by failure to disclose information when there is a legal duty to do so (Section 3); and
Fraud by abuse of position (Section 4).
In each case:
the defendant's conduct must be dishonest;
his/her intention must be to make a gain; or cause a loss or the risk of a loss to another.
No gain or loss needs actually to have been made.
The maximum sentence is 10 years' imprisonment.
Fraud by false representation (Section 2)
The defendant:
made a false representation
dishonestly
knowing that the representation was or might be untrue or misleading
with intent to make a gain for himself or another, to cause loss to another or to expose another to risk of loss.
The offence is entirely focused on the conduct of the defendant.
Fraud by failing to disclose information (Section 3)
The defendant:
failed to disclose information to another person
when he was under a legal duty to disclose that information
dishonestly intending, by that failure, to make a gain or cause a loss.
Like Section 2 (and Section 4) this offence is entirely offender focussed. It is complete as soon as the Defendant fails to disclose information provided he was under a legal duty to do so, and that it was done with the necessary dishonest intent. It differs from the deception offences in that it is immaterial whether or not any one is deceived or any property actually gained or lost.
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Re: Shaming of our bully banks: We DID intimidate customers with fake debt collectio

No surprise really.
They expect you to stick to their rules but their own rules do not apply to them.
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Re: Shaming of our bully banks: We DID intimidate customers with fake debt collectio

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Re: Shaming of our bully banks: We DID intimidate customers with fake debt collectio

@AndyH,
If Everything is legal and above board as these letters suggest then why have they stopped using them ?
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Re: Shaming of our bully banks: We DID intimidate customers with fake debt collectio

I think to make it more transparent to customers that legal action is/will be taken by their own in-house solicitors (if used). Nothing is changing now - other than the names of the companies sending out the letters.
If you look at the HSBC letter from DG Solicitors, it does say that "This firm is the practising name of solicitors employed by HSBC Group". The Daily Mail fails to mention this bit though.
Wonga was quite different - they used legal entities that did not exist, had no qualified solicitors and were not registered with the SRA. They also applied debt recovery fees that they were not legally allowed to do and they also incorrectly calculated the interest on some customer balances that were in default.
nanotm
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Re: Shaming of our bully banks: We DID intimidate customers with fake debt collectio

as did Barclays bank in the period up to and including 2007 and certainly so did HSBC (a practice they used regularly when they were midland bank as well), abbey national was also entrenched in such activities when they were a building society as was northern rock and Bradford and Bingley, and certainly many of the others if not all of them, it was called "sharp practice" by the commons select committee chairman several years ago and he said they should stop doing it which is probably why they have now released the details to the press with the copies of the apology letters, yes banks should be fined and the monies disbursed to the affected customers where they used such illegal practices to bump up the sum demanded from errant customers
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
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Re: Shaming of our bully banks: We DID intimidate customers with fake debt collectio

In what way were the practices illegal?
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Re: Shaming of our bully banks: We DID intimidate customers with fake debt collectio

Why should an errant customer be able to demand anything? Having broken the T&Cs of their loan they are then to be compensated for by the rest of the customer base? So very wrong.

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nanotm
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Re: Shaming of our bully banks: We DID intimidate customers with fake debt collectio

its illegal to misrepresent things, something many banks did when sending demand for payment letters (not even sent by a legal department) with inflated charges,
@mav
no the bank's already outrageously large profit margin gets to shrink a bit as they pay a few quid either to the individual or discount the sum owed by as small amount, bearing in mind that last year despite record fines being announced many of them still made multi billion pound profits
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
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Re: Shaming of our bully banks: We DID intimidate customers with fake debt collectio

Quote from: nanotm
its illegal to misrepresent things, something many banks did when sending demand for payment letters (not even sent by a legal department) with inflated charges,

Then I suggest you go with your evidence to the FCA and SRA. I also suggest you contact the Treasury Committee and request to present your evidence showing that the bank chief executives have lied and misled the committee.