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Sex Equality

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Sex Equality

Why is the Girl Guide movement complaining about the lack of sex equality and what's all this about http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2512412/Female-RAF-recruits-100-000-compensation--march-like...
Sorry it's a Mail article Embarrassed
For the benefit of some, here is the BBC's take on the story http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25090474
Quote
Three female RAF recruits are to receive £100,000 each in compensation - for injuries they reportedly suffered while marching alongside male colleagues.
The women claimed that parading alongside taller men caused them to over-stride and develop spinal and pelvic injuries.
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22 REPLIES
nanotm
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Re: Sex Equality

because they want the ability to recruit boys (who generally spend more money taking part in activities) which legally they already have but of course no self respecting boy would every dream of joining a group who's main mission is to teach girls how to be successful housewives through rewarding them for learning all the different skills that will enable them to do so (badges for all kinds of charitable and house work but not for survival stuff unlike the scouts who focus on survival and preparation with minor badges for housewife skills)
of course anyone with half a brain would be horrified at the thought of hormonal youths interacting so closely with each other and all those extra opportunities they would have for playing doctors & nurses,
the feminist movement has a lot to answer for, the EO movement similarly has a lot to answer for, I don't think girls/boys are worth different amounts as a standard, but as most level headed people would agree there are jobs which whilst the traditional exclusions of women in the workplace were largely unfounded are performed far better than males often with greater dedication to the necessary tasks (something about multitasking means doing lots of things to a lesser degree) there are those rare exceptions in each sex that can cross over at the same or higher level but not as many as the EO brigade would have us believe.
there should really be tests to allow task performance to be assessed and a wage rate granted based on that but it will never happen (because that's not allowing the useless ones the opportunity to get a job for which whilst they desire it there wholly unsuitable)

and no I didn't bother to read the article in the daily h/f/w-ail
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
RichAllen
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Re: Sex Equality

Boys don't need to join the Girl Guides, that's what the Scouts are for.
I used to attend Scout meetings with my older Brother many moons ago, most boring things ever.
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Re: Sex Equality

Long story short, the UK has gone mad and lost the plot. Haven't you noticed Scotland are trying to run with their own reputation before that gets hit? Wink
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Re: Sex Equality

Quote from: 7up
Long story short, the UK has gone mad and lost the plot.

@7up:- too true, following from Moneyweek
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Re: Sex Equality

Worrying thing is there journeys I've heard a lot of that moons ago and the predictions I heard have actually come true. It's not going to get any better unless the state abolish pensions.
To be honest, I personally think thats the way forward. Lets just abolish pensions. Sure, many have worked hard for theirs, many will no doubt complain but its only the same thing that my generation is already accepting - there will be no retirement for us.
The governments since the 80s have been on a witch hunt against the wrong part of the state welfare system - the young employables. By trapping them. The pensioners however who are really taking up a lot of funding are the real issue.
I won't be able to retire when I reach that age so I will have to carry on working. Why should the alredy retired assume that its their right not to contribute? - its their generations that have led us into this mess in the first place.
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nanotm
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Re: Sex Equality

@7up,
not true really, one parliament attacked pensions and refused to fund them, it went further and stole all the funds from pensions, the current administration is trying in a very cakhanded way to remedy this by bringing pensions back in (with funding) it has also extended the retirement age to reflect the age at which the majority are viewed (through very limited studies) as becoming too infirm to work, there have always been plenty that died in working age (although those numbers have been tailing off as healthcare gets better) the real strain problems in the middle of the welfare system have been caused by a single person's view that unless the size of the population maintained a pyramid formation we would struggle in the near future, they created a huge imbalance through borrowing which will in all probability never be righted.
the pensioners didn't cause the problem nor did the indigenous population, however when you read stories about how some migrants are conducting frauds that cost the economy more than a billion pounds a year, hyperinflation of house prices (created by fraudsters) that slowed down social movement (which actually reduces tax income massively) immigration that created a monsterous drain on the economy and cuased the massive bulge in the bottom and middle of the welfare system (despite being sold the myth that the country would benefit form an influx of workers) un cooperative governance that promoted the transfer of everything from manufacturing to telesales to overseas operators (massively impacting on tax income) and has left us with the current generation's problems which the liberals scream racism any time anything gets pointed out...
there was a phrase coined a few years ago that relates to the youths of yesterday being the lost generation (ill educated and encouraged to be degenerates leeches by the state)  I don't agree with a lot of things that have been caused by the miss governance of the last 30 years, I despise the fact that in order to be a part of the EU only the UK was forced to privatise its national industries (yet all the other member states are still allowed to operate there state owned/funded stuff)
but yet I also am utterly disgusted by much that I hear from UKIP which seems to be largely BNP in disguise (contrary to some opinions I fully believe in things like asylum and limited immigration but I don't believe the way such things are conducted today are correct) I wouldn't care if 2 million people arrived from overseas tomorrow if they did so in order to occupy empty properties and with jobs already arranged or on the proviso they were taking over an established business to rescue it that would be fantastic to get net contributors (regardless of colour or religious persuasions) however they should do so under the proviso that uk law is sacrosanct and to be obeyed above all else whilst there here (not as is common place now given leeway because of some cultural obscenity to break laws they don't agree with) similar to the way other nations act towards everyone.
that said I would prefer that equality meant every one is equal and if your not up to the task your out was normal instead of here have some compo because in your struggle to achieve the required standard you got hurt (emotionally or physically) or sorry we cant give you the job mr perfectly qualified and fully fit because there's a wholly unqualified one armed lesbian who will sue us under equality laws if we don't give her the job and we cant afford the bad press......
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
WTF
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Re: Sex Equality

Quote from: nanotm
the pensioners didn't cause the problem nor did the indigenous population

Arguably, by voting for successive governments that didn't save for pensions but pay them out of revenue, they actually did cause the problem.
Quote from: nanotm
when you read stories about how some migrants are conducting frauds that cost the economy more than a billion pounds a year

That's simply wrong.  Total benefit fraud is estimated to be around £1.1 billion and vastly more fraud is committed by Brits than foreigners.  In the grand scheme of things, fraud by immigrants is trivial.
That's not to say we shouldn't tackle it same as tackle all fraud.  Unfortunately, our record in tackling fraud has been woeful - I think I'm right in saying that last big initiative cost 5 or 10 times what it recovered.
Quote from: nanotm
hyperinflation of house prices (created by fraudsters)

Actually, largely caused by Brit's insane infatuation with high house prices, the artificial limiting of land for building in order to support high house prices and of course, government poilicy - like the current government's insane - but effective - efforts to re-inflate the housing bubble.
For some reason, Brits believe that paying a way bigger proportion of their income to live in way worse housing than anywhere else in Europe is a good thing.
It is true that the London property market inflation - particularly at the top end - has been driven by foreign investment recently.  But London has always been different - in the past, house price inflation was driven by mega city bonuses.
Quote from: nanotm
immigration that created a benefit for the economy

FTFY
Pretty much all unbiased research has shown that immigration has had a net benefit for the economy.  The only real point of difference has been how big the benefit has been.
Quote from: nanotm
governance that promoted the transfer of everything from manufacturing to telesales to overseas operators (massively impacting on tax income)

There is a lot of truth in that - one of Maggie's worse legacies.
Quote from: nanotm
left us with the current generation's problems which the liberals scream racism any time anything gets pointed out

If you mean the racist nonsense the right wing media spout about immigration that is flat out contradicted by the evidence, then yeah, people object: lies tend to have that affect.
Quote from: nanotm
I despise the fact that in order to be a part of the EU only the UK was forced to privatise its national industries (yet all the other member states are still allowed to operate there state owned/funded stuff)

You've got that completely the wrong way around.
The UK was a primary mover in getting the EU to promote de-nationalisation.  If the UK hadn't been part of the EU, chances are most of the EU countries would still have a large proportion of their economy nationalised.
Never ceases to amaze me how people rant about the EU doing things that have nothing to do with the EU  Roll eyes
Quote from: nanotm
but yet I also am utterly disgusted by much that I hear from UKIP which seems to be largely BNP in disguise

Not much of a disguise  Grin
It's basically facist-light - for the racist who's not ready to come completely out of the closet  Grin
Quote from: nanotm
they should do so under the proviso that uk law is sacrosanct and to be obeyed above all else

Not sure I see your point: it is Huh
randpwar
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Re: Sex Equality

Getting back to Girl Guides etc  Wink
I have no personal knowledge of the activities that Girl Guides offer these days but my daughter was, about 3-4 years ago, a Brownie (the youngest version of GG) and also a beaver at Sea Scouts. For various reasons she had to give one up. She had no hesitation in letting GG go despite having her school friends there and none at all at Sea Scouts.
Maybe the activates become a little more adventurous as you move through the organisation but she just used it as social time with her schoolmates and found the activities uninteresting; have to say, they did come over a bit like wild flower pressing. She gets completely involved in Sea Scout activities, as the name suggests they do lots of water based things, kayaking, canoeing, sailing etc with even the ‘normal’ (my son is about to move up to the Explorers from Scouts in the Sea Scouts, him and his fellow Sea Scouts, on the occasions when they want to refer to normal scouts in a derogatory manner, call them ‘Dirt Scouts’;  they do also take the mickey a bit at normal scouts attempts to row or paddle in joint activities, this lot are always in boats!) scouting activities seem more fun like night hikes, camping, and rowing somewhere then setting up a bivouac.     
nanotm
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Re: Sex Equality

that's always been the problem with the GG movement, its all about housework, secretarial skills and girly endeavours (like flower pressing) with things like camping being seen as a necessary evil in order to get located properly for singsongs around a camp fire,
other organisations like cadets are all about getting dirty in the outdoors safely whilst doing a wide range of social, sporting and survival activates (often with little or no cross over between them)
my kids all did beavers/brownies then moved on to cadets but all refused to stay within the guides /scouts organisation as the activities were boring, I appreciate that not all troops are the same (because some of the leaders are actually more concerned about the kids having fun) but the vast majority are run by the costa coffee brigade and are more interested in clean simple things than anything that's really worthwhile learning for the time and money invested....
the only thing I didn't like about cadets as a child was the lack of cooking skills taught (because ration packs are all boil some water then use the same water you heated your food with to make your hot drink) fortunately though back then you got after school clubs to teach boys and girls all about sewing/cooking/woodwork(hand tools only) and art, although I am aware that most schools stopped teach those skills many years ago and have only recently started in a limted fashion to reintroduce such things

of course for the guides to increase there market share of youths taking part in there organisation they would need to make the kit cheaper, and up there game in respect of activities undertaken (because a lot of kids aren't fond of the military overlay on cadets but put up with it for the cheapness of the activities and the wide range of events and options on offer) if guides offered white water rafting, kayaking, 2 weeks holiday, 4 weekend camps, 3 troop specific get together events, 4 charity fundraising troop support events, and of course some form of weapons instruction (because at the end of the day if it goes bang kids love it) they wouldn't need to be crying about there plight, then again they would likely struggle to find there own instructors who were qualified to undertake so many outdoors activities, certainly the manicured costa brigade are unlikely to be overjoyed at such ideas....
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
randpwar
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Re: Sex Equality

I agree to a point that the individual leaders will make a difference to the activities offered by differing groups, and my kid’s Sea Scout leaders are more ‘grinning wildly whilst blasting along on a RIB’ than Costa Coffee, but they must also be following a national ‘curriculum’ of sorts?
Just looked at the GG website and they seem to offer camping and outdoor activities but, yes, there are photos of girls cooking which I guess reinforces the general rather twee impression that I get.
Ironically, our Sea Scout group was formed out of a merger between GG and scouts as they both used the same hut and happened to have leaders that all liked water sports. It’s more or less a 50/50 split between boys and girls
pwatson
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Re: Sex Equality

Quote from: nanotm
because they want the ability to recruit boys (who generally spend more money taking part in activities) which legally they already have

Not true - The constitution of the Girl Guiding movement specifically excludes boys from joining.
Quote
Policy statement
Girlguiding is a single-sex organisation in accordance with the provisions of the Equality Act 2010. Girlguiding believes that the needs of girls and young women are best met through an organisation catering specifically for girls and led by women.

The only recent story I've seen featuring Guiding and Equality is this one:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-25138455
which, you'll note, is a very 'one sided' view of equality Smiley  Surely the report should be entitled "Equality for All"?
nanotm
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Re: Sex Equality

the feminist movement (which is certainly the driving ideal behind all equality motions passed since the suffragettes) has always complained that women should be given favourable treatment (not equal) and dispensation(s) to allow them to artificially compete with there male peers on many fronts, which has in turn lead to a lot of bad feeling towards anyone who gets special treatment under equality laws (which invariably disadvantage white British males)
the GG movement is supposed to offer a lot of things and they all have the same handbook, however it does boil down to "my group does these bits and your free to get someone else to help get your other badges"
I'd rather see groups like cadets allowed to take on younger people with a different age appropriate syllabus for children aged 7 and upwards but of course international law prevents that (because of the danger of making child soldiers) however I'm very happy with what the organisation as a whole has to offer, some stuff is utterly pointless to those not planning a military career but most of what's learnt is very useful no matter what employment choices are sought in latter life (team spirit, leadership, firstaid and a whole host of other not so clearly definable things) not to mention its cheap, ok so £300 for the full gamut of gear at the start and maybe the same again going throughout the full 13>18 period, maybe as much as a thousand pounds if your child does everything on offer as well over the same 5 year period, not to mention options to take part in overseas expeditions at vastly subsidised rates, compared to the first year of a single child at brownies which cost over £600 (about £200 of which was down to transport costs for events not undertaken at the hut).
its clear that traditional "girly activities" will still appeal to some but the majority are no longer happy about them, quite possibly because of things like mobile phones/tablets and the impact they have on making people aware of just what else is available.
my sisters all did guides but got bored and left within a few short years but I spent 5 years loving every chance I got to take part in activities (sure some were not as enjoyable as others) but there was always something to do with at least 1 event every month on top of 2 nights a week with peers, some months we had things on every weekend, my kids this year have 2 weekends completely free from October to Xmas hols (all things they have begged permission to do from me and the other half). if the guides could offer such things instead of being all about hair nails makeup and making doilies I'm sure there member ship numbers would be similarly boosted, but 99% of that level of activity is driven by local troop leaders and guide groups have far to cliquey small groups there couldn't sustain such things even if they had the impetus.
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
WTF
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Re: Sex Equality

Quote from: nanotm
the feminist movement .. has always complained that women should be given favourable treatment (not equal) and dispensation(s) to allow them to artificially compete with there male peers on many fronts

Err .. no it hasn't.  It has argued for equal treatment and for some degree of protection against the 'dispensations' men have enjoyed for millenia around not having to take time out of their career to have and care for kids.  I'm no feminist, but even I can see that the only 'artificial' part of competition between men and women are the many unfair advantages we men enjoy over women.
Quote from: nanotm
(which invariably disadvantage white British males)

You mean the most advantaged people in our society?  The ones that run pretty much every institution in the land; hold all but one of the senior government posts; run 80% of industry; earn an average of 14% more than women and are half as likely to be in a low income household than any other ethnic group?
Those white British males?
I'm sure they can cope  Roll eyes
nanotm
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Re: Sex Equality

there's lots of instances of positive discrimination introduced by equality laws, some of them are needed and don't overly disadvantage any one group.
things like time off to look after kids is a good reason not to pay a woman the same amount as a man (because there not doing the same job) and far from allowing it to happen employers are forced to allow it in spite of the impact it has on the business and the excessively high costs they incur where replacement staff have to be hired on a temporary basis to cover the loss wheras they just don't pay the man for the time he takes off for such things, until a change to the law forced them to offer that extra advantage to the men as well.
a lot of the so called equality laws are far from creating an even footing, boosting one group or another into a far more favourable setting than that available to the traditional employment group.
look at the uniformed services, fitness tests are not equal, the men have to achieve far higher standards than the women yet they achieve the same rate of pay and clearly the majority aren't capable of doing the same job (not all mind you) and sanctions are always harsher for a man failing to achieve the standards than they are for a woman, this disparity is apparently because women can not do the same stuff (which is clearly lies as some women can)

there are other circumstances where positive discrimination unfairly advantages one group to the detriment of others without any proper reasoning, like how a homeless heterosexual married family with kids comes lower down the priority list than single mother or homosexual families (even more so if there immigrant families)  because that is seen as equality.
I'm a great believer in equal standing for all, if you can do the job you get the same pay or priority but I cannot understand why they get favourable treatment over others when there not actually doing the same thing and in many cases are not even capable physically of measuring up to the same standard.
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you