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Sandwich factory

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Sandwich factory

As most of you will know a firm making Sandwiche's has claimed that as it's impossible to get british workers to do the job they have to get people from other EU countries.
The first question to ask is this claim correct ? If it is correct how is it that we have so many people out of work here ?
Is there a case to be made for anyone refusing to take up one of these jobs having their benefits stopped ? Clearly we are talking about people living within a reasonable travelling distance, say up to one hour and being provided with a free bus or train pass to get to work.?
Please note this is put as a question and not an opinion.
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Re: Sandwich factory

Quote from: gleneagles
The first question to ask is this claim correct ?
The only place I've seen it referred to leads to the Daily Mail as the source, so who knows..........  Roll eyes
Note that a travel pass would be a taxable benefit.
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Re: Sandwich factory

The jobs are paid at minimum wage but still give people the opportunity to work rather than live on benefits. I think if a job is turned down now it leads to benefits being stopped doesn't it?
@HPsauce, maybe this will be better:  http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/uks-biggest-sandwich-maker-filling-4601822
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Re: Sandwich factory

Will they go Hungry in this factory?
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Re: Sandwich factory

Well 1 hour journey on a bus. Round here that is over £12 return.
Min wage £7/hr, so you work for 2 hours before you earn any money + 2 hours journey time per day.
Lot's of these jobs are part time as well, so if you work 5 hours a day you get £21/day for 7 hours away.
I also don't know of anywhere that will give you a free bus pass.
As far as I know they will stop your money (IF You get any that is!) if you refuse a job offer.
PembsPanther
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Re: Sandwich factory

A job is a job at the end of the day, if you are unemployed having to march tot he tune of the local Gestapo at the job centre to be handed a few pennies every fortnight then surely even flipping burgers in McDonalds would be a better option? I have said for years there is plenty of work out there..............for people that want it that is!
itsme
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Re: Sandwich factory

The article stated
Quote
Human resources director Allyson Russell said that “very low unemployment” in the area made the overseas search necessary.
She said: “In Northampton, we do have a problem in that there is very low unemployment. And its not always the kind of work people have wanted to do.”


Backed up by a local rag
Quote
Figures from the Office of National Satistics (ONS) reveal that there were 3,432 people in the town claiming jobseeker’s allowance in September 2014, compared to 3,677 in August.
This means that only 2.4 per cent of Nothampton were recorded as officially unemployed last month, compared to 2.6 per cent in August.

and it may become a surprise with some on this forum but the average time that someone is unemployed is 3 months.
and an employer would be looking for staff that going to stay and not be used as a stop gap until something else turn up.
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Re: Sandwich factory

This isn't all black and white this topic. There are many factors to look at here and i suspect most of you know it but will publicly be in denial about it.
One of them is the british standards. When it comes to food preperation, there are very strict standards. Skin conditions, diseases and many other medical problems have to be declared. We british people know this and (in many ways) are too honest for our own good and declare them. The employers then decide "Oh we can't use them.." and that person doesn't get the job. When it comes to EU citizens though, these standards suddenly seem to disappear. My neighbour was from Lithuania.. worked in food prep / drinks factory and had allowed wild mice into his property which then bred, infested the neighbours and then worked their way into our loft too. They even got into our kitchen, chewed up the carried bags under the sink and took the odd one or two back up into the loft (we heard the little [Censored] running round excitedly with their find before finding the remains of the others that afternoon). How do we know it was the neighbour? - None of us had problems with mice before. When he moved out the agents workmen went in and found a disgusting situation.. yet somehow this guy was working with the products that YOU consume. He also had some health problems yet from the EU he hadn't declared them (I knew people who worked with him). Oh and his wife worked there too!
So yes.. good on him for taking that job.. and putting YOUR health at risk. I couldn't do that.
I've applied for loads of jobs at places that are known for employing ONLY foreign workers. I only got one interview and THREE MONTHS LATER they rang me back to ask if i could send them my financial details for payroll etc. THREE MONTHS. IS it really fair to keep people hanging around like that while you're busy hunting for cheap foreign labour? No. So i applied for other jobs. When I mentioned that i had a hopeful opportunithy elsewhere they dropped me like a hotcake and wrote a very snotty letter to me about it.
Then there are other medical problems. It's well known that we as a country are not a well nation. I have five operations ahead of me at some point. Who as am employer is going to be willing to give me the time off to recover from those? - while also putting up with my health problems pre-operation? They're not. These days it's about profit and loss. If a member of staff isn't performing at 150% then they're a loss and should be binned (also making it harder for them to reclaim JSA). How many other people are like that out there? - Every job application I've filled in asks if I have any health problems and the only jobs I've ever got into are the ones where I lied through my teeth and ticked "No". Any application I've been honest on, I've never even got an interview - even if i tick the disability box for a GUARANTEED interview.
I did once have a job where they asked about health after we started. Two of us had health problems and like idiots believing this company were genuine, we both declared our health problems. We were the first to be forced out fo the door.
Then there is the benefits debate:
Quote from: artmo
The jobs are paid at minimum wage but still give people the opportunity to work rather than live on benefits.

Oh wow! Minimum wage but it gives someone the opportunity to work hard, slog their guts out and make the rich.. richer! Fantastic, thats a GREAT opportunity there artmo, absolutely brilliant!
Seriously while I'm not one to shy from hard work, I do feel that we expect far too much from people who earn peanuts. We expect them to sacrifice themselves, work for peanuts and get no reward for it.. other than paying bills to make someone else richer. Is that really all the reward you want them to have for their efforts artmo? - Would YOU artmo like to work for the minimum wage with no prospects of improving your life? You do not realise artmo, many of these people end up earning LESS than they get on benefits and thus SACRIFICE themselves for people like YOU who appear to enjoy a rather comfortable life.
I repeat artmo, would you like to earn the minimum wage and have no reward for it? - We both know you're going to try your best to dodge this question or answer it indirectly like a politician.
Fair enough yes sandwich making is grotty but pay a decent wage and you'll find no end of people willing to do it. Nobody wants to work and then be robbed senseless by the state and utilities of every penny they worked hard for - thats just not right. You also forget artmo.. on the minimum wage you not only have to survive but if you want to do anything with your life you also have to somehow fund your education too. On the minimum wage that simply is not possible and thus generation after generation are trapped in poverty and they loose hope and eventually decide "stuff the state and my country i'll take the easy option instead". If you don't reward people for working there is little incentive for them to do so. David Cameron banging on about "making work pay" which in reality means making benefits worse while working conditions for the poor also don't improve, means nothing to those of us at the bottom. We know exactly how his scheming little mind looks after himself and his rich chums, he and George have no interest in helping us up the ladder at all.
You should have watched "How rich are you" on channel 4 last night. One guy even admitted he's in such a mess he'll do dodgy stuff like illegal debt collecting to keep himself afloat. You're quick enough to slate criminals aren't you, yet fast enough to slate those who won't volunteer to be stitched up.
My generations are also paying for the elderly generations upkeep, houses, pensions etc. There is the age old arguement about old people being forced to sell their homes to pay for care etc. Well.. at least they managed for afford their own home! My generation and those younger than me are stuffed. Then things were changed to let old folks keep their homes.. and who is paying for that now? - The working younger generations. Again we are being sacrificed so that the well off can stay well off.
I know many of you will slate me (especially with regards to the old age thing as you don't like to admit living off others) however you have to wake up and realise its the truth. There is not an unlimited amount of cash out there and somebody has to pay for things that you refuse to. If the rich won't pay for their 'needs' then it's the masses stuck in poverty that end up being forced to.
Our nations people have always helped it's fellow citizens in times of trouble - war etc - we've always pulled together and helped each other but these days this country is all about giving others a very hard time with the dog eat dog attitude and "you should have taken responsibility for your mess.. that i created for you" attitude. It doesn't work, it annoys people and it causes bad feeling. There is more to life, the country and the so called economy than profit and making the rich richer. To put it bluntly, if you're going to screw people over at every opportunity, don't be surprised when they run out of goodwill and refuse to help you or work for you.
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Re: Sandwich factory

Quote from: PembsPanther
A job is a job at the end of the day, if you are unemployed having to march tot he tune of the local Gestapo at the job centre to be handed a few pennies every fortnight then surely even flipping burgers in McDonalds would be a better option? I have said for years there is plenty of work out there..............for people that want it that is!

I agreed with your post until i read the last line about plenty of work.
Take a look at the job sites like totaljobs.com - every day and just watch how many jobs are just repeated and repeated every day. There are not really that many jobs, they are just readvertised repeatedly to make it look like there are more jobs than they really have.
My last employment was 2010. They forced me out the door due to health problems. Despite that I've continued trying to find work since then and now in 2014 I've given up and stopped bothering. I'd rather stay at home being lazy and doing nothing than going out working hard (as I always have despite health problems) and getting trashed for it by an employer who wants rid of the liability of my health problems and rights that go with it.
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Re: Sandwich factory

I've heard the phrase "I can't afford to work" many times. I would hope this applies less these days than 30 years ago.
I take 7up's point about quality standards in the workplace.
Many industries are bound by employment standards and it's ok having 20 people queueing for a job if non of them qualify for one reason or another.
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Re: Sandwich factory

Quote from: Strat
I've heard the phrase "I can't afford to work" many times. I would hope this applies less these days than 30 years ago.

Look at Hairy McBikers reply. It says it all.
The more you have, the better off you are. The less you have the harder you have it.
Just having a car makes getting to work so much easier - not just financially but also saving you time too. When you don't have one you're reliant on slow public transport and pay through the nose for it. In effect, you are punished for being poor. Doin't forget those poor enough not to have a car are expected to make people like Stagecoach's Ann Gloabe richer and richer. In fact those at Manston airport were expected to sacrifice their jobs so she could turn their airport into housing and get even richer.
Until people in this country wake up and start to realise that those at the top need to provide genuine help for those at the bottom, nothing will change.
My partner is foreign yet she's had enough of this country too. She dislikes the way the rich have such an easy time of it while those at the bottom are expected to work their backsides off for a pittance. She came here to make a better life for herself. She is a very hard worker and in 10 years she has had virtually no reward for her efforts. She like most british people has now become fed up with the way this country works because it does not reward hard working people but instead rewards only the rich.
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Re: Sandwich factory

The state of employment in this country is a joke, you get areas (usually down south) that claim high employment therefore they outsource to overseas workers, then you get areas, like, say, up here in "The north" where unemployment is high, and yet the companies who are looking at foreign workers don't bother looking to the north, as if we're all diseased and must be quarantined... Roll eyes
It's not helped either by the likes of the Job Centre and the DWP, if you're on JSA, you HAVE to take a job if offered one, even if it's 2 hours away and pays so little you're losing more money getting to and from it than you get out of it regardless of if you enjoy the work or not, and if you refuse a certain amount of jobs, you're told to eff off, your JSA is stopped and you're not allowed to make another claim for I think 6 months to a year, and thus people turn to crime just to get locked up, cos in prison, you get free accommodation, free food and work onsite, with no incentive to exist out in the real world...
And it is very true that a lot of people can't afford to work, as soon as someone gets a job and gets off benefits, unless they're lucky enough to land a cushy job with a decent salary, you're lumped with full council tax, full rent (you ain't getting a mortgage on Housing benefit!!), all the household bills (not counting things like broadband, sky, mobile phones, etc.), travel expenses, etc., and they end up worse off in work than they were on state benefits, and this is where the problem lies, the rich don't care, they're sorted, but for the deprived parts of the country, the gubberment expects us to live like it's the 18th century with 5 generations of family living in a 2 bed house to "share responsibility" for the cost of living... Roll eyes
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Re: Sandwich factory

Quote from: twocvbloke
The state of employment in this country is a joke, you get areas (usually down south) that claim high employment
Have you actually checked the unemployment figures for London compared to the rest of the country?
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Re: Sandwich factory

Quote from: 7up
This isn't all black and white this topic. There are many factors to look at here and i suspect most of you know it but will publicly be in denial about it.
One of them is the british standards. When it comes to food preperation, there are very strict standards. Skin conditions, diseases and many other medical problems have to be declared. We british people know this and (in many ways) are too honest for our own good and declare them. The employers then decide "Oh we can't use them.." and that person doesn't get the job. When it comes to EU citizens though, these standards suddenly seem to disappear. My neighbour was from Lithuania.. worked in food prep / drinks factory and had allowed wild mice into his property which then bred, infested the neighbours and then worked their way into our loft too. They even got into our kitchen, chewed up the carried bags under the sink and took the odd one or two back up into the loft (we heard the little [Censored] running round excitedly with their find before finding the remains of the others that afternoon). How do we know it was the neighbour? - None of us had problems with mice before. When he moved out the agents workmen went in and found a disgusting situation.. yet somehow this guy was working with the products that YOU consume. He also had some health problems yet from the EU he hadn't declared them (I knew people who worked with him). Oh and his wife worked there too!
So yes.. good on him for taking that job.. and putting YOUR health at risk. I couldn't do that.
I've applied for loads of jobs at places that are known for employing ONLY foreign workers. I only got one interview and THREE MONTHS LATER they rang me back to ask if i could send them my financial details for payroll etc. THREE MONTHS. IS it really fair to keep people hanging around like that while you're busy hunting for cheap foreign labour? No. So i applied for other jobs. When I mentioned that i had a hopeful opportunithy elsewhere they dropped me like a hotcake and wrote a very snotty letter to me about it.
Then there are other medical problems. It's well known that we as a country are not a well nation. I have five operations ahead of me at some point. Who as am employer is going to be willing to give me the time off to recover from those? - while also putting up with my health problems pre-operation? They're not. These days it's about profit and loss. If a member of staff isn't performing at 150% then they're a loss and should be binned (also making it harder for them to reclaim JSA). How many other people are like that out there? - Every job application I've filled in asks if I have any health problems and the only jobs I've ever got into are the ones where I lied through my teeth and ticked "No". Any application I've been honest on, I've never even got an interview - even if i tick the disability box for a GUARANTEED interview.
I did once have a job where they asked about health after we started. Two of us had health problems and like idiots believing this company were genuine, we both declared our health problems. We were the first to be forced out fo the door.
Then there is the benefits debate:
Quote from: artmo
The jobs are paid at minimum wage but still give people the opportunity to work rather than live on benefits.

Oh wow! Minimum wage but it gives someone the opportunity to work hard, slog their guts out and make the rich.. richer! Fantastic, thats a GREAT opportunity there artmo, absolutely brilliant!
Seriously while I'm not one to shy from hard work, I do feel that we expect far too much from people who earn peanuts. We expect them to sacrifice themselves, work for peanuts and get no reward for it.. other than paying bills to make someone else richer. Is that really all the reward you want them to have for their efforts artmo? - Would YOU artmo like to work for the minimum wage with no prospects of improving your life? You do not realise artmo, many of these people end up earning LESS than they get on benefits and thus SACRIFICE themselves for people like YOU who appear to enjoy a rather comfortable life.
I repeat artmo, would you like to earn the minimum wage and have no reward for it? - We both know you're going to try your best to dodge this question or answer it indirectly like a politician.
Fair enough yes sandwich making is grotty but pay a decent wage and you'll find no end of people willing to do it. Nobody wants to work and then be robbed senseless by the state and utilities of every penny they worked hard for - thats just not right. You also forget artmo.. on the minimum wage you not only have to survive but if you want to do anything with your life you also have to somehow fund your education too. On the minimum wage that simply is not possible and thus generation after generation are trapped in poverty and they loose hope and eventually decide "stuff the state and my country i'll take the easy option instead". If you don't reward people for working there is little incentive for them to do so. David Cameron banging on about "making work pay" which in reality means making benefits worse while working conditions for the poor also don't improve, means nothing to those of us at the bottom. We know exactly how his scheming little mind looks after himself and his rich chums, he and George have no interest in helping us up the ladder at all.
You should have watched "How rich are you" on channel 4 last night. One guy even admitted he's in such a mess he'll do dodgy stuff like illegal debt collecting to keep himself afloat. You're quick enough to slate criminals aren't you, yet fast enough to slate those who won't volunteer to be stitched up.
My generations are also paying for the elderly generations upkeep, houses, pensions etc. There is the age old arguement about old people being forced to sell their homes to pay for care etc. Well.. at least they managed for afford their own home! My generation and those younger than me are stuffed. Then things were changed to let old folks keep their homes.. and who is paying for that now? - The working younger generations. Again we are being sacrificed so that the well off can stay well off.
I know many of you will slate me (especially with regards to the old age thing as you don't like to admit living off others) however you have to wake up and realise its the truth. There is not an unlimited amount of cash out there and somebody has to pay for things that you refuse to. If the rich won't pay for their 'needs' then it's the masses stuck in poverty that end up being forced to.
Our nations people have always helped it's fellow citizens in times of trouble - war etc - we've always pulled together and helped each other but these days this country is all about giving others a very hard time with the dog eat dog attitude and "you should have taken responsibility for your mess.. that i created for you" attitude. It doesn't work, it annoys people and it causes bad feeling. There is more to life, the country and the so called economy than profit and making the rich richer. To put it bluntly, if you're going to screw people over at every opportunity, don't be surprised when they run out of goodwill and refuse to help you or work for you.

WOW there are around 5 different threads there in one post  Cheesy I mostly agree with you, there will always be ill people not capable of work, I am one I have problems with my lumbar facet joints in my lower spine and the nerves that surround them, I take a cocktail of medication every day including morphine and now Oxycodone just to half function like a normal human being, I too am awaiting a number of surgeries on my lower spine in the hope of finding long term pain management that does not involve taking enough pain killers every day to keep a horse asleep, I still work though, most week 70-80 hours (the joys of being self employed  Wink ), I have to I have no choice I have a family to feed and clothe and keep a roof over, sitting back on whatever paltry sum the government deem fit to give me is not and never has been an option, not for me anyway. I do however understand that I am lucky to a certain extent in the fact that medication will take the edge off my symptoms and allow me to function but it only does that, takes the edge off I am always in pain, it never goes away.
I do however realise that not everyone is as lucky as me and for some work is not an option at all due to illness and the recent cull undertaken by ATOS and co was a shambles at best but it has left a lot of vulnerable, ill people now at the mercy of the "computer says no" brigade at the job centre, totally wrong IMHO and somebody somewhere should be dragged over hot coals for it but it will not happen, having said that I refuse to believe that ALL those kicked off Incapacity Benefit have had an injustice served on them, the shake up was necessary and inevitable, sadly though as usual it has not happened without its casualties.
I do not believe we are a nation of sick people, I disagree with that and the rashes thing you mentioned as well all smells of excuses to me, if you try hard enough you can find a million excuses for anything the truth is often the hardest thing to admit. There might and probably are more economical and maybe even political reasons why this sandwich factory is looking abroad for employees, I do not doubt that for a moment but this is not the first time we have heard this tale of woe it has been highlighted in the news many times over the last few years about the UK workforce not taking jobs because they deem them to be beneath them or are too low paid, well correct me if I am wrong but when claiming JSA you are paid precisely nothing, you are given a state hand out every fortnight to keep you alive and fed and warm but you have actually earned nowt, not a single penny so even a job paying minimum wage at £6.50 an hour is a vast improvement on the nil they are currently earning. The problem with JSA and the other benefits people get is "some" look on them as being a long term solution, they were never intended to be this, they were always supposed to be a temporary hand out to help you in times of hardship or unemployment, people were never meant to spend a lifetime on them and then breed a few children who then follow mum and dads example and spend another lifetime on them, this is where the system has failed.
Although some of the benefit shakeup have been a complete catastrophe it HAD to happen, the job centre instead of handing out tissues with the fortnightly giro are now taking control of the situation and forcing people into work, where they should be, whether the reward is small or not, Joe Bloggs should WANT to provide for himself and his / her family. Yes we have heard tales of people being better off on benefits than in work but it does not ring true really, you work and earn minimum wage, you have a family, rent to pay and all the other bills associated with life in general yet you do not bring home enough to cover these essentials, the government does not say tough get on with it, they then top up your wages with tax credits and housing benefit and council tax benefit, the more accurate line is "some" people are in the same financial boat working full time as they are claiming benefits, I refuse to believe for one minute that anyone is even 1 penny a week worst off, if you can show me proof I am happy to be proved wrong?
Having said all that I do agree with you that people should indeed be rewarded more for their efforts, sure you get a full time job and are in the same financial position as you are claiming benefits, the fact you are working and back in the work market place and providing for yourself and family should really be enough reward to swallow that pill however I can see how "some" might think well what is the point, I might as well stay at home watching Jeremy kyle and have the same money coming in, some people do not have any pride or self worth I understand that. For me it is not a case that benefit payments are too high, this is nonsense we live in a very expensive country that has been made an expensive place to live by the rich and their greed, that is not the fault of the working man or woman so why should they suffer for it? The government has only ever given the bare minimum to a benefit claimant the problem is the cost of living, rent, utilities etc etc etc The minimum wage does need to be increased, if you go to work and work full time then you should quite rightly expect that at the end of the month you can pay all your bills, feed yourself and your family and have a few quid left over to enjoy life a little, to treat the kids now and again to a day out, to be able to save for the future, these rewards should be what everyone who works full time experiences and the only way to achieve this is to up minimum wage, forget about share holder dividends reward the people on the front line who deserve it without who there would be no business to begin with!
I also think though small businesses have a part to play and to a certain degree they need to take the challenge and start the wage revolution so to speak  Grin My own business does not employ anyone, there is no need I am a traditional one man band, another business me and the wife run between us however will be employing for the first time next Spring, unfortunately this business is seasonal but we have a plan to try and keep as many staff if not all over Winter, this will primarily involve us not growing the business as quickly as we would like over the Summer months, we could allow the business to boom next Summer, employ 20-30 people and then have to lay off at least half if not more in October, I would not appreciate this happening to me so we are trying to avoid this at all costs, even the cost of slowing growth, anyway I digress, we realised right at the very beginning when we were putting the business plan together that minimum wages is useless and from the viewpoint of a forward thinking employer it is not the way to get the best staff and then to get the best effort from those staff. The job opportunity we will have to offer will be unskilled manual labour, however we have a very high standard on the way we do things, this is our niche in the industry we are in, we go above and beyond on every job and aim for perfection something not easily achieved with employees. Right from the beginning we have factored in labour costs at the very least to be the living London wage now set at £9.15 per hour, we are not in London in face we are in the sticks in Wale however that whole London tariff has always been nonsense to me! We have always looked a this as being part of the cost involved to do what we do and priced our services accordingly from the beginning, for us there a few plus points to paying a decent wage the main 2 being that paying so much over minimum wage we would be hopeful of attracting excellent staff that work for our competitors that feel unrewarded for the effort they put in for their employer, we would also hope that we will attract a higher caliber of applicant, don't get me wrong we are not looking for Professors just hard working people with a bit of integrity and determination to succeed that want to be rewarded accordingly for their hard work and efforts, the higher wage makes our higher standards not look like so much hard work  Wink
If more small businesses would adopt this attitude then in no time the bigger businesses would have no option but to start to increase their wage offerings as well, or be left with the bottom of the barrel that the job centre are trying to force into work rather than people that want to work, people that simply want an honest days pay for an honest days work, nothing more nothing less. We need to help hard working people get out of benefit dependency just to pay essential bills and keep a roof over their heads, the ONLY way to do this is for employers to take responsibility and pay a decent wage to the people that deserve it the most. Our employees will be going out every day and representing our company, working hard to make our company a success, working hard to give our company a great reputation and an edge over our competitors, ultimately working hard to make mine and my wife's business successful and with success comes money, why should that money not be shared and the people who have helped to achieve it, employers and share holders do not need to be greedy, I am confident our business will still make a great profit and provide me and the wife with a great income, it does not need to be achieved of the blood, sweat and tears of front lone staff earning peanuts. We are convinced this attitude is a win win for any employer and with the employer is where it must begin.
Apologies for the HUGEEEEE post but as you said in your first line 7up this topic is not all black and white.
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Re: Sandwich factory

As to driving to work:
I used to commute to Edinburgh 40miles each way, 1 hour minimum.
I used £50 of diesel a week, this was 2005 fuel was 80p/L.
Now it would cost me a minimum of £100/week since I no longer have my nice diesel car that did 50mpg. I have a banger that has just failed its mot so its a scrap job.
So £100 + wear & tear off minimum wages (I do have a degree so can't even get those jobs! see itsme's last comment) of £245 if you work 35hours a week.
I used to have to service my car 2-3 times a year @~£600 + tyres every year £200.
I would almost end up paying out to work in Edinburgh now.
And to the first statement don't you HAVE to have some form of HSE cert to work in these factories? I know you do to work in a sandwich shop.