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Russian Spy Attack.

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Hero
Posts: 4,714
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Registered: ‎31-07-2007

Re: Russian Spy Attack.


@Jonpe wrote:

 dropping bombs on innocent civilians is not a good thing

 


But Dresden for example is an exception?


@Jonpe Well, in absolute moral terms there can be no exception to the fact that killing innocent persons is wrong. However in the matters of Syria, and Germany with occupied lands under an evil system of dictatorship, that has to be defeated, the moral absolute is unsustainable. Those Dresdeners, let's assume their personal innocence, but one also needs to recognise that, willy-nilly, they were a part of that evil we needed defeat.

On Syria, I'd propose a similar argument, but modified.

Under the Assads' regimes minorities, Christian, Jewish etc had relatively benign existences. For instance, On 31 January 1973, Assad implemented the new Constitution which led to a national crisis. Unlike previous constitutions, this one did not require that the president of Syria must be a Muslim, leading to fierce demonstrations in Hama, Homs and Aleppo. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_history_of_Syria#Ba'athist_Republic_of_Syria_1963-today). Interesting is that in a show of refugee life in a Welsh village that gave sanctuary. I learned that it was not unknown for the religions to share each others festivals.

Forward to the uprisings! The West latches on to the harsh rule of Assad (junior) and the word "freedom" and naively gives support without realizing the Sunni side was more rigorous than the Alawite Shia regime, and a haven  for extremists.

IMHO, this time the West created the problem, and it is Russia  making a fist of restoring stability against the danger of extremism. Eventually  we shall pay the price, but hopefully it will be less than that of existence in a theocratic dictatorship.

And those people being bombed? Of course they're innocent, BUT.

 

No one has to agree with my opinion, but in the time I have left a miracle would be nice.
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Hero
Posts: 4,714
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Registered: ‎31-07-2007

Re: Russian Spy Attack.

Folk who visited Zizzies and the Mill have been advised to wash their clothes and possessions.

On Putin here is an interesting link.

No one has to agree with my opinion, but in the time I have left a miracle would be nice.
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Seasoned Pro
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Registered: ‎13-07-2009

Re: Russian Spy Attack.


@Minivanman wrote:

Apparently, May is now 'under pressure' to take "firm action" against the Russians.

 


Sanctions won't work on Russia, they are not up to their neck in debt and are food and energy independent. 

If life gives you lemons, make lemonade.
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Aspiring Champion
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Registered: ‎25-07-2007

Re: Russian Spy Attack.

What do you do when there’s nothing you can do ?

You stamp your feet and make strange noises !

A job for the Foreign Secretary ......

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Community Veteran
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Re: Russian Spy Attack.

Boris is certainly good at strange noises lol.

We must be realistic here, Russia is bigger than us. We no longer have a large empire or the military might to challenge them. This is the fault of many prior governments who keep cutting everything having lost income from so many public services they sold off.

Once upon a time we had the vulcan bomber fleet - a credible thread to deliver a nasty payload. Now we have very little that could do the job other than politicians who think that the best weapon to deal with any problem is to keep smiling in front of the cameras.

Russia is untouchable. No matter how much our leaders like to think we still have some sort of heavy influence in the world, we don't. We must learn to accept that or set about invading many countries and rebuilding the empire - which would make us exactly what Russia is and what we keep arguing against. The alternative is that we go on a massive military spending spree and start to develop out own in house defenses again instead of relying on american tat like the F35 but that would turn into an arms race again wouldn't it.

Maybe we should for once just grit our teeth and keep quiet rather than keep winding up the ruskies but at the same time we do need to somehow convince them that we won't be pushed around. The assassinations are one thing but russia building new nukes and effectively holding the world to ransom is not good news.

I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
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Community Veteran
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Registered: ‎02-08-2007

Re: Russian Spy Attack.


@Minivanman wrote:

@gleneagles

Fracking and logging? That's conflating two separate issues surely.

Logging can be a problem if not done responsibility. Here in Wales it is considered a natural and sustainable resource whereas fracking is, we know don't we, going to be in the hands of corporations that hold environmental concerns secondary to profit regardless of possible pollution to the water table for example.

Like so much else, it's bad news in pursuit of profit regardless of public opinion.


Perhaps I should have been more detailed when referring to logging, I was thinking more about those countries where the rain forests are being destroyed due to logging but accept it is easy to be critical of poorer countries who have few ways of generating income but I accept that if done in a responsible way then it's ok

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Community Veteran
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Re: Russian Spy Attack.


@Jonpe wrote:

 dropping bombs on innocent civilians is not a good thing

 


But Dresden for example is an exception?


Japan might have been a better example, whilst it is wrong to kill innocent civilians and few would disagree that using a atomic bomb was the right thing to do and thus shorten the war and saving the lives of many who would have lost their lives if the war continued there has been considerable debate about the necessity to drop a second bomb a short time later ?

For anyone either involved in that war or lost relatives or friends there would be no question about a second bomb being necessary but that might be based on understandable feelings rather than fact.

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Community Veteran
Posts: 10,307
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Re: Russian Spy Attack.


@Minivanman wrote:

Apparently, May is now 'under pressure' to take "firm action" against the Russians.

Perhaps these political pundits can also tell us how we can do this against somebody who has a much bigger stick than we do. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR4wf6AAcQc


No problem in taking action against Russia, this country has some of the best hackers in the world, ask the Americans.

Let them loose on Russia, that will sort the problem out.

Grin

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Aspiring Legend
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Re: Russian Spy Attack.

Best hackers are in the UK?

I always thought it was China that wore that particular crown. Snowden might have known his way around a computer better than most, but his was a case of access and smuggling out a flash drive.

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Aspiring Legend
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Re: Russian Spy Attack.

Dresden is just more click-bait from the same source and shows a poor grasp of history - and the dropping of those atomic bombs on Japan was not about shortening the war.

The contemporary view is that whilst it might have been justified from a war waging point of view, Japan at that time had no navy, no allies and all of her paper thin cities were being razed to the ground by fire bombs dropped unhindered from American B29's. Even the most conservative estimates put the number of mainly civilian deaths prior to Nagasaki and Hiroshima at almost one million - which is a staggering figure and ten times the total killed (again mainly civilians) by those two bombs.

The US were little more than sabre rattling, they ignited the cold war, and Truman was playing a duplicitous double game - but then weren't they all.  

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Seasoned Hero
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Re: Russian Spy Attack.

The prime minister said the government had concluded it was "highly likely" that Russia was responsible for the attack on Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia in Salisbury on 4 March.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43377856

The poison used to target a former spy and his daughter was from the Russian-made nerve agent group Novichok, the PM has said.

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Aspiring Legend
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Re: Russian Spy Attack.

I though we already knew that?

Ex Russian spy/dissident dies under suspicious circumstances again in the UK - even Inspector Clouseau could have worked that one out. Wink

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Seasoned Hero
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Re: Russian Spy Attack.

Just been listening to PMQ,s on BBC news WOW !!!

No wonder this country is in a mess Undecided not one of them had anything sensible to say Roll_eyes  one of the idiots even said is Russia capable of holding the Football world cup next year Crazy3

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Hero
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Re: Russian Spy Attack.

As a double agent this man would surely have been of benefit to both powers, and subsequently equally despiced by both.  Yet he, and his family, were living peacefully in the UK without so much as a false identity.  Why would the Russians decide to 'bump him off', and why at this particular time?

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Community Veteran
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Re: Russian Spy Attack.

It will strengthen Putins image in his country.

I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!