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Russian Spy Attack.

Minivanman
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Russian Spy Attack.

Is this not a question of what is sauce for the goose....

After all, the Russians are not the only ones bumping people off and it seems to me that what "outrages" our Home Secretary Amber Rudd more is not the act itself, but that it was carried out in a public place. 

I seem to recall some top MI5 chief or whoever in front of a select committee stating categorically that the British intelligence service did not have the likes of James Bond with a licence to kill - yet correct me if I am wrong, but was there not a shoot-to-kill policy in Northern Island, a scandal for which the likes of John Stalker paid the price for when he uncovered it?

Nasty stuff all round, but lets not play the innocent - or am I wrong on that as well Huh

 

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Luzern
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Re: Russian Spy Attack.

What an ethical minefield is assassination! We and Russia are not at war, so both their action is unjustified attempted murder of another, and collateral attempted  or accidental manslaughter of others. IMO the same would apply if we reciprocated in like manner.

Is Russia, then, by its action claiming a state of war does exist between us? I rather doubt that, or they with experience  have not counted the cost. My conclusion is that the poisoning was a reckless act of vendetta and revenge against their expat.

Whether we should be excessively concerned how they treat their own is moot, but as it happened here must be pursued without escalation to international.

As to the justification of any assassination, I say in principle "no", unless the fallout benefits have a very positive forecast- not wishful thinking.

No one has to agree with my opinion, but in the time I have left a miracle would be nice.
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Re: Russian Spy Attack.

It's not the first time Russia has assassinated enemies of their state within our borders, remember Alexander Litvinenko? Poisoned with Polonium in our country...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko

rongtw
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Re: Russian Spy Attack.

Kim jon Ung is not afraid of assassinations Smiley

wonder how much he  charges  Cheesy

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Re: Russian Spy Attack.

Assassination has to be the preferred option in many cases.

When you think of recent wars / skirmishes you can't help thinking what if, and how many lives would have been saved.

Wasn't it confirmed by some "high ranking American" that wars were good for one thing. Good for testing modern weapons.

Steve
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Re: Russian Spy Attack.

To be a Top Secret Spy, surely there has to be a clause in there somewhere about betraying your country. Was it not the head being chopped off in public over here from our Majesty the Queen? wonder if that still exists. 

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Re: Russian Spy Attack.


@Minivanman wrote:

I seem to recall some top MI5 chief or whoever in front of a select committee stating categorically that the British intelligence service did not have the likes of James Bond with a licence to kill


Utter rubbish. MI5/6 are just discrete about it.

When i worked for the government years ago I had a colleague who had previously held a high position for the state up in london (former beefeater iirc). I asked him one day if we really had spies like Bond who go and deal with things. His answer was "yes of course we do we just don't make it public".

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Minivanman
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Re: Russian Spy Attack.

@Luzern

You raise an interesting point about killing your own.

It was only a couple of years ago that a drone controlled from an RAF base here in the UK killed a British citizen fighting in Syria. No trial, just "an executive action" to quote one paper "for being a threat to national security" - and how many others died in that action as a result?

Hypocrisy has no borders that's for sure.

 

 

 

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Re: Russian Spy Attack.


@billnotben wrote:

Assassination has to be the preferred option in many cases.

When you think of recent wars / skirmishes you can't help thinking what if, and how many lives would have been saved.

Wasn't it confirmed by some "high ranking American" that wars were good for one thing. Good for testing modern weapons.


But it can go all wrong, Gadiffi & Saddam for instance ?

Ok they were not assassinations but for many were the correct action at the time but with hindsight were they ?

As for the recent nerve gas attack, whichever foreign power was responsible joint action should be taken by all countries who deplore this type of action by applying the necessary sanctions to keep that country isolated, block all trade, stop all flights and transport going into that country etc.

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Re: Russian Spy Attack.

@gleneagles 


As for the recent nerve gas attack, whichever foreign power was responsible joint action should be taken by all countries who deplore this type of action by applying the necessary sanctions to keep that country isolated, block all trade, stop all flights and transport going into that country etc.


In theory....

 

But in practice.... can we survive without the Gas being supplied from Russia.... ? 

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Re: Russian Spy Attack.


@gleneagles wrote:


But it can go all wrong, Gadiffi & Saddam for instance ?

Ok they were not assassinations but for many were the correct action at the time but with hindsight were they ?


With an assassination yes you probably wouldn't get a puppet replacement. I would assume the hope would be someone with a necessary firm hand but a lot less of a lunatic.

With a war and invasion all bets are off as we have all seen.

I expect various nefarious government departments in most countries consider assassination all the time. But realistically it's not possible or too high a risk. I mean it wouldn't look good if they were caught unless we are to believe the poison tooth or cigarette.

That said I'm sure I've heard it mentioned in more than one oddball program that there is a sort of back stabbers agreement between the vast majority of countries that none try to assassinate any other countries leaders / prominent people. Probably some truth in that as the alternative would be utter chaos. Besides any leader that openly sanctioned such a thing would only make themselves a target. And we can't have that as it's the leaders job to start wars, stand a safe distance away, and send in the common folk to kill or be killed.

 

Steve
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Re: Russian Spy Attack.


@shutter wrote:

 


In theory....

 

But in practice.... can we survive without the Gas being supplied from Russia.... ? 


Not a cats chance in hell and I am glad to see someone here type that. Russia=very bad but in the real world Russia=Trade and warmth.

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Minivanman
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Re: Russian Spy Attack.

@shutter

So how much gas do we actually get from Russia?

A quick check shows 44% from European pipelines of which 35% come from Russia, so presumably not all of that is coming into the UK.... or am I missing something? Roll eyes

https://www.britishgas.co.uk/the-source/our-world-of-energy/energys-grand-journey/where-does-uk-gas-...

I'm not so sure the Kremlin has us over a barrel on this one.  

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Re: Russian Spy Attack.

And what percentage of our future gas supplies will come from fracking ?

Minivanman
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Re: Russian Spy Attack.

By all accounts the UK’s shale gas industry is in a race against time to establish itself before climate change regulations shut it down - so lets all hope they stumble, fall and fail.

We need to stop sucking the life out of our planet. 

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