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Religion

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Religion

OK... I know....  you`re not supposed to talk about religion or politics  ..... Why not? they are not as controversial as pornogrophy or other sexual matters... so... how about your personal view on religion....
Now, I don`t want this to turn into a secular war, nor a fight about which religion is best... so see what you can make of my "take" on why I am not religious, and put your personal views only... no attacks on other religions...
As a child, I remember going to "Sunday School" in a corrugated iron church for about an hour on a Sunday morning.... it was " the way of life"... and no doubt gave parents of the time, a break from their kids while they got the Sunday roast under way in the kitchen.....
I seem to remember it as a pleasant enough experience.  and later on, I became a choir boy, and going to choir practice on a friday night, weddings on a saturday and two services on a Sunday... all of which, again, I remember as being "enjoyable"....  So you might think that the next step would be for me to become a trainee vicar.... Sorry.. but I joined the Navy when i was 15 .... and although there were church services and prayers on Friday Parade... I sort of lost interest...
so now I am not religious, and looking back at the Church life, and religion in general, I have become "disillusioned" because of some of the stuff I was taught as a kid, just do not seem to ring true anymore.... various parts of the "good book" seem to be flouted by the church, yet they seem to be overlooked by most people as insignificant....
one of those things is something to do with Jesus not being too happy with moneylenders and traders in church premises... yet how many churches hold sales, and coffee mornings in the church on Saturday.... especially those in the city/urban environment.... and what happens to all the money "donated" to the churches at collection times?  originally, I think, it was to pay the vicar his "wage" for teaching the good book, and giving him a living... yet now I understand that churches have vast wealth, and "invest" in the city to make more money, instead of "giving to the poor"... ( another reason for the collections in churches)...  Then of course there is the "God is on our side".... well, depends which side you are on... he can`t be on both sides in a war.... can he?  and how about "suffer little children"  and all the diseases that kill and make people suffer.... apparently, God created the world and all that it contains... why would a God who cares about his "children".. do such a thing to his children.... Can God be charged with murder?  all these questions are never fully answered by the church.... There are a lot more deeper questions in my mind but these will suffice for now...
so now you can see why I am not religious.... which does not mean I am against religion....
24 REPLIES
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Re: Religion

I'm the treasurer at my church, which is independent and as such can tell you that our collection does indeed go to pay for the pastors wage, building maintenance, bills etc. (and it is just about covered most months)
We don't have one penny invested, neither do we charge for any food provided at luncheons nor hold sales.
you're also right that in the mainstream churches there is a shying away from the difficult questions. but there are clear answers, which people mostly dislike Roll eyes
it's also something that is hard to discuss on a forum such as this, because of the nature of the forums calm and open debate is often impossible.
Will Moderate For Thanks
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Re: Religion

Religion = Trouble.
Too many wars have been fought on the basis of religion.
I'm technically C of E but I am no longer religious. When you see everything that is so wrong with the world today you have to ask yourself why any 'real' god would allow it all to happen. My answer to that is that there is no god. Likewise I also don't believe that any of the other gods from other religions exist either.
I prefer to think that we've evolved naturally and all this religious crap is a load of nonsense thats actually holding us back as a race.
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
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Re: Religion

Well for balance I am a devout AGNOSTIC.  Smiley
I have no dealings with anybody religious, I say live and let live, but if they try an badger me about "their saviour"/why. Then I may just give them the benefit of my size 10's. I have a notice on my front door saying NO COLD CALLERS, and underneath it says THIS INCLUDES RELIGIOUS ONES.
The local Jehovah witnesses are a real pest round here, dragging their kids with them just so you cant swear at them. I just let my dog bark at them and they soon go away  Angry
Neither of my parents were religious, although my mothers family seemed to be dedicated Orange people. "King Billy" etc, when we used to visit them.
I didn't ever go to Sunday School, the nearest church was next to the school, and that was 2 miles away along a dirt path/open fields.
I investigated all the religions while in secondary school, during RE, and came to the conclusion that I wasn't interested in any of them.
IF I was forced to have a religion then I would go for worshipping the Norse Gods  Wink But as it isn't compulsory then I will stay as an agnostic with atheist tendencies.  Wink
As I have said before on here, religion is to blame for more wars than anything else. The money grabbing of them during the Middle Ages and the gold and land that the bishops grabbed, all in the name of "saving the souls" of the poor.
There is a group of monks round here and also a group of Buddhists near by. I like the idea of Buddhism but couldn't handle the no killing of anything.
As to "heaven" etc, well I tend to believe in re-incarnation, having met many people who seem to have "been round before". But I don't believe that there is a "god" that created the world in 7 days etc etc.
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Re: Religion

I was christened C of E and I am also a registered Ismaili Muslim.
The only times I visit a church are christenings, weddings and funerals.
I used to visit the local Jamat Khana (mosque) with my late wife but not since she died.
My problem is my strong interest in science and we have the conflict between evolution and creation which people with a strong religious belief will attempt to reconcile resulting in an inevitable failure.
I also subscribe to the belief that most wars are fought on religious grounds but also believe that eradicating religion would not eradicate war as other causes would 'fill the void'.
If I had to worship anything it would be the sun (the celestial object not the newspaper), indisputably the giver and sustainer of all life on the planet.
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randpwar
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Re: Religion

I’ve heard many people say that they aren’t religious because ‘religion causes wars’ and I always think that they’re confusing ‘religion’, as in a belief / faith system, with a man-made organisation ‘church’ of whatever basis (Christian, Muslim Sikh etc). I think it possible to have religious beliefs and also to have the opinion that this church or that church has caused conflict 
I also think that there are many avenues in ‘faith’ of ‘belief’. I personally don’t believe in a deity, however, it’s sometimes not hard to look over your past life and ‘believe’ that a route or pathway was already there and all I did was walk down it
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Re: Religion

Having posted this
Quote from: Strat
I am also a registered Ismaili Muslim.

...and also posted in here http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,116621.0.html
I expect to be very closely monitored by GCHQ and put on a plane to North Korea within the week so I may not be able to moderate this forum for much longer.
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kmilburn
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Re: Religion

I'm not religious, and it's nothing to do with 'religion causing wars',  it's because it [organised religion] appears to be a man made system designed to control the masses.
While some aspects of the system are (or were) useful, most of it is designed to instill compliance through fear  (do as we say or you're going to hell).
In thoery, I'm technically agnostic,  while not aware of any beings capable of doing what is suggested,  I wouldn't rule ot the possibility of them somewhere in the universe; 
Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
However,  I see no reason to hold any belief/faith that they care any more for us than a scientist would for the bacteria growing in a petri dish.
And,  as Ricky Gervais put it...
[quote=http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2010/12/19/a-holiday-message-from-ricky-gervais-why-im-an-atheist/]The dictionary definition of God is “a supernatural creator and overseer of the universe.” Included in this definition are all deities, goddesses and supernatural beings. Since the beginning of recorded history, which is defined by the invention of writing by the Sumerians around 6,000 years ago, historians have cataloged over 3700 supernatural beings, of which 2870 can be considered deities.
So next time someone tells me they believe in God, I’ll say “Oh which one? Zeus? Hades? Jupiter? Mars? Odin? Thor? Krishna? Vishnu? Ra?…” If they say “Just God. I only believe in the one God,” I’ll point out that they are nearly as atheistic as me. I don’t believe in 2,870 gods, and they don’t believe in 2,869.
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Re: Religion

Quote from: kmilburn
So next time someone tells me they believe in God, I’ll say “Oh which one? Zeus? Hades? Jupiter? Mars? Odin? Thor? Krishna? Vishnu? Ra?…” If they say “Just God. I only believe in the one God,” I’ll point out that they are nearly as atheistic as me. I don’t believe in 2,870 gods, and they don’t believe in 2,869.

That's what led to so many religious wars, my god/s bigger/better/stronger/<inset why here> than yours, so mine is the best TAKE THAT! <sock>.  Wink
That or the "differences" I read this as meaning this, you think it means that - I am right and stronger so I will bash you.
DaveyH
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Re: Religion

I have nothing but contempt for all religion.
Having said that though, I respect peoples rights to believe in what ever they like, but object when those beliefs are allowed to effect others.

shalom2010
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Re: Religion

I'm going to keep out of this conversation....Oh, I''ve just joined in, whoops!
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Re: Religion

Quote from: Strat
I am also a registered Ismaili Muslim.

Did you have to pay a 'bride price'? Wink
My F-I-L wanted 50 sheep.............................butchered and frozen, 1 per year..........I'm still paying Grin Grin
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Re: Religion

No but a contract was put out on me at one point.
Needless to say I survived.
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Re: Religion

Quote from: DaveyH
Having said that though, I respect peoples rights to believe in what ever they like, but object when those beliefs are allowed to effect others.

everyone's beliefs effect others though, whatever they are.
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Re: Religion

Like most other responses so far on this topic, I am also a non believer.
The more I read the Bible or other Religious works the less I am able to understand how anyone can believe.
Early man worshiped the Sun, Moon & Stars and there was at least some logic to this as these were things that could be seen and had always been there, even the Egyptians and Greeks for some part of their History also worshiped these type of Gods and they were fairly advanced societies, over the past few thousand years several major religions have appeared along with a string of branches with their own version of events.
Those who claim to believe in any religion must have some doubts about the origin of man and it seems more logical to accept the evidence so far of what has been found and displayed in various museums throughout the world than the Adam and Eve version, how could they have 2 sons, Cain Kills Able and is then sent out into the world.........What world, where did everyone else come from ?
Always liked the angels bit, logical really, how else could it be possible to stay in Heaven which is above the Clouds,The reason why many Monasteries were Built on Mountains to be near Heaven, Hell of course being at the center of the Earth, but now we can see well above the clouds so where exactly is this Heaven ?
I Guess it's all down to Faith but to have faith in something that happened centuries ago without evidence does not seem Logical, even the Dead Sea Scrolls  make no mention of Jesus but provides much information about the Political problems of the time (Similar to todays News)