cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Powerline ethernet.

Community Veteran
Posts: 13,920
Thanks: 514
Fixes: 7
Registered: 01-08-2007

Powerline ethernet.

Hey guys  Cheesy
First of all while this is about hardware it's more about the principles and health effects than the hardware itself... but if a mod decides to move it then so be it.
Righty, I got me a set of powerline ethernet adapters recently for twnty squids at pcworld - who decided to waste my petrol, send me on a wild goose chase and then not bother giving me my 10% discount... but thats another story.
In another thread on the hardware forum, our long time member and good friend vilefoxofdoom (known as foxy, vilefox, evilfox and many others) stated this in a topic about turning off wifi due to EM radiation:
Quote from: vilefox
What about the effects of the broadband signal in your telephone wires?  Grin

Now I didn't initially take him seriously as he tends to just (IMO) say these things for a bit of a giggle (in my experience anyway). So.. that clearly (what with me being paranoid etc) played on my mind the last couple of days... does powerline ethernet have any sins of its own?
Well obviously like every other paranoid person on the planet (which apparently runs into billions according to how well google is able to auto suggest search terms) the answer is a staggering yes. Not just a yes but a stronger yes than wifi some are suggesting.
So... I'm confused. Are they safe(r) or not than wifi? - From my electronics days my understanding was that unless actually going through a proper radion transmitter (eg a device designed to expel a signal from an antenna) then any other form of signal stayed with the wiring it was carried on. But I'm known to get these things wrong.. and so i'm here asking you motley lot  Tongue
I found this site which didn't seem to be very supportive of Powerline ethernet:
http://en.geovital.com/ethernet-over-power-line-eop-powerline-powerlan-and-health-effects/
So.. if Wifi is a risk, powerline is a risk and the missus is adamant i'm not laying down ethernet cables all round the house, what is a man supposed to do?
More to the point, what the flaming heck am i supposed to do about the digital baby monitor she's setup next to his cot?
Help....
7up
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
34 REPLIES
nanotm
Pro
Posts: 5,671
Thanks: 108
Fixes: 1
Registered: 11-02-2013

Re: Powerline ethernet.

all wires create an em field when electrons travel through them, the more traveling the stronger that field, if you then bang a carrier wave and utilise pulse modulation the collapse/build of the carrier pulsing will of course trigger "leaky cable" the very thing used to distribute wifi and phone lines across London underground (for instance) the strength then is down to how much juice is pouring through the wire, the more amps your using the further from the wires that radiation will leak, you can prevent this leakage form doing anything by utilising shielded powerlines in your property.....

don't think its true go put your hand on the feed line to a tv transmitter, you will at the very least get hot when your close ot it and more than likely burntr through from the field (ok there really high powered unlike the average household wireing) everything that is unshielded emits signals to some degree, have a high res joint at the wavelength point along your wiring nad you will emit more than normal as it will act as a wave emitter half dipole (that's a type of antenna made up of just a length of wire and a piece of string) no need for an actuall antenna /
wifi is inherently safer than powerline systems but its also not as reliable so you pays your money you takes your chances/
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
Community Veteran
Posts: 13,920
Thanks: 514
Fixes: 7
Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: Powerline ethernet.

Quote from: nanotm
you can prevent this leakage form doing anything by utilising shielded powerlines in your property.....

Well sadly I'm not about to be rewiring someone elses house for nothing... but I do appreciate the idea  Roll eyes
As for the rest, I am aware that wiring will leak a field but my point is.... is it safer than wifi or not?
I seem to recall OJ saying he's worked with modulated signal devices for his career so i'd be interested to hear his thoughts.
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
Community Veteran
Posts: 2,282
Thanks: 218
Fixes: 1
Registered: 04-08-2009

Re: Powerline ethernet.

In the great scheme of things, I don't really think that the absolute risk is worth worrying about. Going down stairs, and the risk it carries, is probably orders of magnitude more risky!
Community Veteran
Posts: 5,314
Thanks: 462
Fixes: 1
Registered: 21-03-2011

Re: Powerline ethernet.

Ouch! I have just cut my finger on the foil cutter on the roll box when I was making the hat. I hope it doesn't go septic. Wink
Now Zen, but a +Net residue.
Community Veteran
Posts: 2,282
Thanks: 218
Fixes: 1
Registered: 04-08-2009

Re: Powerline ethernet.

Interesting table from the BMJ web site...

Some common risks                                                                                                                           The absolute chance they will happen
Dying in a road traffic accident over 50 years of driving                                                                                                       1 in 85
Needing emergency treatment in the next year from injury by a can, glass bottle, or jar                                               1 in 1000
Needing emergency treatment in the next year from injury by a bed, mattress, or pillow                                               1 in 2000
Dying in any accident at home in the next year                                                                                                               1 in 7100
Being hit in your home by a crashing aeroplane                                                                                                               1 in 250,000
Drowning in the bath in the next year                                                                                                                               1 in 685,000
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,244
Thanks: 933
Fixes: 54
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: Powerline ethernet.

The road traffic accident one is wrong
From the official figures https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/annual-road-fatalities
Taking all traffic fatalities it is about 2,000 per year so the chance of death per year based on a population of 65 million is 1 in 32,500
Community Veteran
Posts: 2,282
Thanks: 218
Fixes: 1
Registered: 04-08-2009

Re: Powerline ethernet.

But the BMJ one is for 50 accumulated years. How does 1:32,500 accumulated over 50 years work out? The longer period of time you drive the greater the risk?
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,244
Thanks: 933
Fixes: 54
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: Powerline ethernet.

You need to look at it the other way round
The chance of not getting killed is (65,000,000-2000)/65,000,000  and if you survive that year then the same chance the following year
The end result is 1 in 650
If the latest figure of 1,700 is used then the end result is 1 in 760

Community Veteran
Posts: 2,282
Thanks: 218
Fixes: 1
Registered: 04-08-2009

Re: Powerline ethernet.

So, taking it to the extreme, if I could live for 1000 years and drove for all that time, I would almost certainly have an accident, so doesn't the cumulative risk tend towards 1:1 ? ie almost certainty? Defining a time period (such as a year or 1000 years) also defines the cumulative risk surely?
The others don't say annual risk, but they probably should, whereas the driving one quotes 50 years.
EDIT: Actually I've just seen the problem here...  the BMJ list is a list of common "risks" and gives the absolute "chance" [probability] they will happen. Defining the time period should give a probability which is higher over time, but with the same probability each year.
I dunno really, just trying to remember my A-level maths!
Community Veteran
Posts: 7,906
Thanks: 588
Fixes: 8
Registered: 02-08-2007

Re: Powerline ethernet.

The answer to the OP is simple, don't worry about it as you are certain to die of something one day, even if it's old age.
Wink
Community Veteran
Posts: 2,282
Thanks: 218
Fixes: 1
Registered: 04-08-2009

Re: Powerline ethernet.

Breathing air kills with 100% certainty!  Cheesy
VileReynard
Seasoned Pro
Posts: 10,580
Thanks: 190
Fixes: 9
Registered: 01-09-2007

Re: Powerline ethernet.

Think of sending a signal via the air or via wire.
You will need a similar bandwidth in either case.
However, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect - so perhaps wired is "safer"Huh
Quote
Lost in Space is remembered, in part, for the Robot's oft-repeated lines such as "Warning! Warning!" and "That does not compute". Smith's frequent put-downs of the Robot were also popular, and Jonathan Harris was proud to talk about how he used to lie in bed at night dreaming them up for use on the show. "You Bubble-headed Booby!" "Cackling Cacophony" "Tin Plated Traitor" "Blithering Blatherskyte" "Traitorous Transistorized Toad" are but a few alongside his trademark lines: "Oh, the pain... the pain!" and "Never fear, Smith is here!"

Community Veteran
Posts: 13,920
Thanks: 514
Fixes: 7
Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: Powerline ethernet.

Come on guys, enough of taking the mick eh?
I have a 8 month old son to think of. I don't want him to have leukemia or something because of something I've done and could have prevented.
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
VileReynard
Seasoned Pro
Posts: 10,580
Thanks: 190
Fixes: 9
Registered: 01-09-2007

Re: Powerline ethernet.

Stay out of the sun, then.