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Pins 'obsolete within five years'

Midnight_Caller
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Pins 'obsolete within five years'

Hi All
Just seen this:
Quote
Pins 'obsolete within five years' - and pay with mobile or fingerprints instead
The four-digit Pin will be phased out by 2020, according to experts as banks push hi-tech ways to pay including fingerprint-readers and mobile phones

The Pin number will vanish within the next five years as banks replace the four-digit password with new technology that reads your fingerprints, vein pattern or voice, according to experts.
Banks will nudge customers to use hi-tech readers or contactless payments in shops and ticket terminals instead of the typical "chip and Pin" by arguing it is safer and offering discounts for using the new technology.
Major banks, including Halifax and Barclays, argue that Pins are a "flawed" security barrier that fail to protect against fraud.
Read More here

My bold
Banks will nudge customers to use hi-tech readers, translation force customers to use hi-tech readers.
Banks push hi-tech ways to pay including fingerprint-readers and mobile phones, translation force customers to use them!
Palm Vein Scanner are inaccurate, why because your veins change with age!
Voice pattern recognition is inaccurate, why because your voice changes with age!
But the Banks will go full steam ahead any how!  Angry  Angry
24 REPLIES
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Re: Pins 'obsolete within five years'

Fingerprints can be lifted off pretty much anything shiny, mobile phones can be stolen, RFID "contactless" cards (with a £30 max spending thing) can be remotely scanned and cloned with something in someone's pocket, but only the cardholder knows their own PIN number... Cool
Community Veteran
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Re: Pins 'obsolete within five years'

Thats true twocvbloke and personally I feel uncomfortable with banks holding my fingerprints. It's another way of the state ensuring our personal details are recorded on a database somewhere somehow that they can get their hands on. We all know how much they love the banks.. and how much the banks love them. That information will be in the hands of the government faster than a rat up a drain pipe.
What worries me more is that if someone does steal your fingerprints and you then find fraudulent transactions, the police are most likely to try and prosecute YOU - the victim for fraud and perjury - though you're innocent and cannot prove it.
I am very uncomfortable with this idea.
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
Community Veteran
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Re: Pins 'obsolete within five years'

Just refuse to accept the "alternatives", I have a couple of contactless cards which I have never used the contactless feature on, if asked for a fingerprint ID, then I'll say no, the PIN number system works for me, yes it too can be hacked, but involves installing dodgy keypads which isn't always easy, but the other methods, too easy, fingerprints moulded into gelatine, they work, RFID copies, they work, mobile phones (shiny surface with fingerprints) working in conjunctio with RFID stuff, they work, so, I think banks would like our money to be stolen...
I prefer PIN numbers myself, started off with swipe & sign, which was easy to fake considering the signature was on the card, but the PIN, only I know my PINs, even remember my first PIN too (no longer used for anything now as I changed it to something more memorable, ironic considering that was 14.5 years ago!!), PINs are hard to steal, especially if you use repeated numbers in the PIN so not even the FLIR iphone accessory IR temperature thing works...
nanotm
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Re: Pins 'obsolete within five years'

it wont be long before they just install biomimetic pay scanners and all they need is to be you ... in the USA 5 years ago there was a growing trend of people having bio chips inserted into their body that contained their banking in contactless tech but they still had to enter the pin number for it to wok (mostly birds who went to night clubs)...... contactless cards were a later invention that worked on the same principle but you still need your purse so not as "versatile" as the bio chip/
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
Community Veteran
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Re: Pins 'obsolete within five years'

I think I'll stick with cash.
Community Veteran
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Re: Pins 'obsolete within five years'

You sure you wouldn't want shiny beads? Given that the world is presently screwed and soon to be split like a piece of wood that hadn't been pre-drilled, shiny beads will be worth more... Grin
Community Veteran
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Re: Pins 'obsolete within five years'

All this rubbish plastic money and printed money which can be debased by governments' quantitative easing. .
A few years ago I paid a builder with gold sovereigns [before the cave dwellers leap on me it was receipted VAT work and gold sovereigns are not subject to CGT]. He's into gold bullion and we based it on the spot gold price. In this case it was win-win as I'd paid less than half the price when I bought the sovereigns and for him the price of gold went up after the transaction, though I think he still possesses the coins.
Now Zen, but a +Net residue.
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Re: Pins 'obsolete within five years'

Quote from: 7up
Thats true twocvbloke and personally I feel uncomfortable with banks holding my fingerprints. It's another way of the state ensuring our personal details are recorded on a database somewhere somehow that they can get their hands on. We all know how much they love the banks.. and how much the banks love them. That information will be in the hands of the government faster than a rat up a drain pipe.
What worries me more is that if someone does steal your fingerprints and you then find fraudulent transactions, the police are most likely to try and prosecute YOU - the victim for fraud and perjury - though you're innocent and cannot prove it.
I am very uncomfortable with this idea.
Can you elaborate on how someone can steal your finger prints ?
Community Veteran
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Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: Pins 'obsolete within five years'

It's not easy but mythbusters did it on one of their shows.
Granted it would look a bit odd paying for something in a shop using something that isn't your finger or thumb but scammers are out there and they cooperate with each other.
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
nanotm
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Re: Pins 'obsolete within five years'

Your finger print is an electronic record and it's easy to duplicate them
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
PowerLee
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Re: Pins 'obsolete within five years'

It was the finger print lock that Mythbusters beat pretty easily.
IIRC they also had a finger print id device for a computer that they beat as well.
Community Veteran
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Re: Pins 'obsolete within five years'

Nano - please do a bit of research. Fingerprint biometrics are generally a hash total based on pattern recognition as presented to a physical reader. Modern readers also sense blood flow to defeat the photocopy/gelatine copy.
Edit: here's a quote from Apple:
"the actual image of your fingerprint is not stored anywhere, and is instead converted to a mathematical representation of a fingerprint that cannot be reverse engineered into one. This mathematical representation is stored in a Secure Enclave within your phone's chip, and is never accessed by iOS or other apps, never stored on Apple servers, and never backed up to iCloud or anywhere else".
Now Zen, but a +Net residue.
PowerLee
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Re: Pins 'obsolete within five years'

The new Microsoft Lumia 950 & 950 XL have a feature called Windows Hello.
On these 2 phones it uses an infra red camera & your iris data to unlock the device, more secure then a finger print.
nanotm
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Re: Pins 'obsolete within five years'

Okay, I capture the targets reading with a data device then I play it back whenever I want to buy something with their account, the majority of payment systems use wireless connectivity and the same systems are found in lots of places which makes it easier for the criminal types to do the job, it helps them that shop staff are low paid and frequently open to extra income opportunities...

Never mind that shop chains buy the cheapest kit not the best kit and its vulnerabilities are often know before the manufacturer starts selling them...
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you