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Petition

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Petition

Have just received an email from a friend asking me to sign this petition asking for the sacking of the two Birmingham muslim councillors who refused to stand to honour the brave soldier Lance Corporal Matthew Croucher - link here.
I haven't signed it because I don't think that it will do any good.  Wondered what other forum members think?  Would it be of any use?
I heard the news on a phone-in programme on Radio Sheffield and it made me sick to the heart to hear the female of the duo defend herself.
Whatever they think about the war in this country this was not the object of the exercise, which was purely to honour the outstanding bravery of one young soldier.
I also thought it hypocritical of her as she sits there, living in an enlightened country which 'allows' her to practise her faith freely and also gives her the privilege of being able to accept a responsible position (as a woman) which helps to shape her local authority and community.  Contrast this with the lives of the women of Afghanistan who were beaten for showing a small amount of their ankles, had to walk around in a 'shroud' and were not allowed the freedom to work or to be educated. 
I can understand her opposition to the war but even then the woman's 'tunnel vision' just astonishes me. 
16 REPLIES
nadger
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Registered: 13-04-2007

Re: Petition

Hopefully the voters, in Birmingham, will show these two the exit sign at the next election.
I'd love to see our service personnel  out of Afghanistan but one should respect the bravery shown by them.
David_W
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Re: Petition

I believe it was a Frenchman who said (and I paraphrase) "I may disagree with your opinion, but I will fight to the death to protect it".  It's a sign of a good democracy that we allow people to have opinions which strongly differ to our own, we may not agree with what these idiots have said, but we should respect their right to protest (and of course hopefully they will lose their seats at the next election when people who disagree with their opinion express their rights to show they disagree with their opinion).
Moderator
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Re: Petition

Quote from: David
I believe it was a Frenchman who said (and I paraphrase) "I may disagree with your opinion, but I will fight to the death to protect your right to express it".

I have added the crucial but in bold you missed out Smiley and it's that right to free speech and opinion that we hold so dear and fight to protect in a democracy.
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Re: Petition

Yes, and these two have that right - a right that is denied to a large proportion of the population of Afghanistan.  They should reflect on that and maybe go and try to help the people who have to live there. However, I agree with nadger that it would be good to see our brave service personnel out of that country.  I fear that it is all in vain.
Community Veteran
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Re: Petition

Origin of the quotation:
Though these words are regularly attributed to Voltaire, they were first used by Evelyn Beatrice Hall, writing under the pseudonym of Stephen G Tallentyre in "The Friends of Voltaire" (1906), as a summation of Voltaire's beliefs on freedom of thought and expression.
nadger
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Re: Petition

Quote from: poppy
I fear that it is all in vain.
History would indicate that we are fighting a losing battle.
Moderator
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Re: Petition

But to pull out would be seen as losing face Roll eyes
Wasn't that the case with Vietnam for the Americans all those years ago?
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jmd
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Re: Petition

Yes - but haven't they said that Afghanistan is another Vietnam?
I feel that free speech and the right to express your feelings are very important.  Also you need to be sensitive to others feelings as well.


Getting it right is difficult.

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Re: Petition

Yes, I think that we all agree that free speech is important but the issue is not totally about this because in actual fact they just sat down and failed to respect the bravery of this young man.  I wonder if they would have been so courageous in the same set of circumstances?  Our service personnel are fighting for our freedom and safety (including theirs).  I wonder if they would have been so unforgiving in the event of a terrorist attack in this country which had originated in Afghanistan? 
Giving some respect to the soldier would not have negated their personal opinions - it was entirely separate issue IMO. 
Whether or not it is another Vietnam is a moot point, but to me it does not make their action right. 
Community Veteran
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Registered: 11-08-2007

Re: Petition

i saw a woman on the beeb website news speaking about this.  she gave her reasons and i found her impressive.  she has a right to her opinion and i stand with her.
Community Veteran
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Re: Petition

So what you are saying is that these preachers of hate have every right to say what they like ?
Imagine if your Son had been killed in Afghanistan and you heard on TV some person encouraging killing all infidels you would be ok with that ?
What about the London bombings, it would be interesting to know what those who survived with missing limbs think about free speech.
I Can think of a Number of topics I would soon be arrested for if I stood in the middle of the town and came out with some hateful talk about various groups.
Bit like that chap who said the Holocaust did not take place, they soon arrested him !!
nadger
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Re: Petition

I won't be going to Luton today, not that we ever do.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-12372713
pierre_pierre
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Re: Petition

well somebody had to put the boot in today  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12371994
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Re: Petition

Artificer - I too heard her speaking on the BBC and was not impressed at all.  She ought to be grateful for the fact that she is a free woman who can actually air her thoughts and feelings in the public domain.  This is what citizenship of this country and the sacrifice of our forebears has given her.  Had she been an Afghani muslim she would probably have been beaten down and kept indoors.  There are other democratic ways of demonstrating her opposition to the war without insulting this very brave young man.  Angry
I sincerely hope that the voting public of Birmingham get rid of these two as soon as the next election comes round, or preferably that they are expelled ASAP.