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On Line Piracy

Community Veteran
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Registered: 02-08-2007

On Line Piracy

Seems that ISP's will be required to send letters out to those involved in illegal downloads,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-27330150
No problem with that BUT how will your ISP know if the download is illegal or not ?
For example I recently downloaded a copy of Linux Mint 16 ISO and another download from Onone software normally a paid for program but was being offered free (Onone effects)
How will an ISP know exactly what I am downloading and how long will it keep records of what is downloaded, I accept little action other than a warning or educational letter will be sent out but personally I don't even want one of those.
Few people support piracy which is costing the companies involved millions of pounds but equally everyone involved in downloading legal material does not want to be put under suspicion
25 REPLIES
VileReynard
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Re: On Line Piracy

If someone writes to Plusnet quoting an ip address and time/date,
Then Plusnet will issue a threatening email to you claiming that you downloaded illegally.
In my case there was a delay of around 6 weeks between the alleged act and the notification.
Plusnet will refuse to divulge the identity of anonymous claimant.
If you expend a great deal of effort, Plusnet will reluctantly divulge the title of the item you are alleged to have downloaded.
But they will refuse to withdraw the allegation - no matter how daft it might be.

Community Veteran
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Re: On Line Piracy

Interesting reply which raises even more questions, under the freedom of information act can PN refuse to supply you with this information and secondly is it not up to the person making such allegations to prove them which is normally done via the courts ?
Community Veteran
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Re: On Line Piracy

It's FUD. If you get a letter then they assume you will cough up, look at the mess made by that law firm, whose owner was struck off.
At the moment ALL you will get is letters, nothing else.
I also download torrents of Linux distro's so be interesting to see if they send me any  Grin Mind you I have Encryption Forced on my client, I will not accept or connect to any client that is not encrypted, so how they know what I downloaded, other than being part of the swarm feeding the torrent?
VileReynard
Seasoned Pro
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Re: On Line Piracy

Quite so.
I too use torrent encryption.
All they have is a bunch of ip addresses.
Apparently I downloaded an American Wrestling DVD!  Grin Grin Grin Grin

Community Veteran
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Re: On Line Piracy

Quote from: Hairy
At the moment ALL you will get is letters, nothing else.
how do they know what I downloaded, other than being part of the swarm feeding the torrent?

And that's the very point..............at the moment ALL you get is letters, nothing else.
If someone sends me a letter accusing me of something I did not do and they are not prepared to prove it in court are they not guilty of harassment and could I take legal action against them for sending me threatening letters or making false or unproven claims against me ?
VileReynard
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Re: On Line Piracy

It will look like this:-
Quote
Dear XXXXXXX,
Unfortunately we have received a complaint regarding copyrighted material that appears to have been shared from your connection.
If you're not sure why this might have been received or would like more information regarding this please raise a query at https://portal.plus.net/wizard/index.html
(click on Customer Services & Billing / Contact the Abuse Team).
We are legally required to advise you that you must take all reasonable precautions to ensure that no one (including you) uses the Service:
(a) fraudulently or in connection with a criminal offence;
(b) to send, knowingly receive, upload, download or use any material which is offensive, abusive, indecent, defamatory, obscene or menacing,
or in breach of copyright, confidence, privacy or any other rights.
If you're aware that this is happening on your connection, please ensure you stop the sharing of the offending material.
Even if you're sure that nobody in your household has been sharing any copyrighted material the account holder is responsible for any and all use of the connection.
Please ensure that if you use a wireless network that it is fully password protected and as secure as is possible.
For more information on securing your networks and computers please see http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/wireless_broadband/secure_home_network.shtml
Kind regards,
XXXXXXX

Community Veteran
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Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: On Line Piracy

Quote from: Hairy
[...] other than being part of the swarm feeding the torrent?

Which, if they are the copyright holder, or acting on their behalf must mean that the distribution is authorized otherwise they are illegally distributing it?
F9 member since 4 Sep 1999
F9 ADSL customer since 27 Aug 2004
DLM manages your line the same way DRM manages your rights.
Look at all the pretty graphs! (now with uptime logging!)
Community Veteran
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Registered: 16-02-2009

Re: On Line Piracy

Exactly my point  Cheesy
Community Veteran
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Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: On Line Piracy

This is stupid
From the report linked in the first post
Quote
A maximum of four alerts - by either email or physical letter - can be sent to an individual customer account. Language will "escalate in severity" - but will not contain threats or talk of consequences for the accused users.
After four alerts, no further action will be taken by the ISPs.
Quote
On the new plans, a source close to the discussions told the BBC: "The rights holders have accepted they can't use this process to go after individuals.
"The ISPs have insisted that already established, legal routes are used in that scenario. Instead, the purpose of any campaign will be to inform and raise awareness rather than punitive action."
nanotm
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Re: On Line Piracy

well since the fishing expeditions they used previously were technically illegal (they had no knowledge if any customers were breaching copyright only a suspicion without evidence and used that to get warrants to receive ISP data) and the way that individuals were harassed into bankruptcy which on appeal were often squashed and remunerations went unpaid for illegal asset seizures (like stealing peoples homes and possessions) where a minor above the age of criminal responsibility went unpunished for there illegal activities in favour of criminalising the parent who was innocent of all charges.......
if I go shopping with my kids and one of them gets caught for shoplifting there the ones who will face criminal charges, if my kids go and kick some pensioner to death for the pennies in there purse its the kids who will go to prison, why then is the bill payer held as responsible for the actions of others using the family connection ?
if ISP's wish to go down this route they must be prepared to offer individual contracts to everyone over the age of 10 for a few pence a month (pocket money) and hold each account holder responsible for there own activities, furthermore breaching privacy rights by snooping on behalf of a third party without the benefit of a duly obtained search warrant is another criminal act,
if there going to start this hate campaign against customers again then its up to the industry to protect the intellectual property to a degree where it would require more than a toddler to rip an album and upload it, they would also have to prove that any seeding was being done knowingly and not as a result of an unwanted update from a less than honest multi installer (think the common bundled junk with java or flash), all in all a half decent legal team will get any legal action tossed and the unfair contract conditions that isp's are planning to implement will also need scrapping as they assume criminal guilt without need for a trial irrespective of the facts something that flies in the face of criminal law ......
its yet another death throw from a failing industry that's had its heyday and should either catchup with modern technology or roll over and go quietly, the old industry is long gone and the digital phenomenon has been here for years already, lower the prices to match what consumers are prepared ot pay (a fair price would be a £1.00 an album) as things stand I can get a track off amazon or google in mp3 format with no encryption and copy that download onto multiple devices without any problems, which apparently makes me a pirate------yet had they put a software lock on the file so it was only operable with a cloud player app then I couldn't do this (but I could still access my music from anywhere with a device running the app)
its the same for the motion picture industry, only its worse for them because they actually spend millions making big budget movies yet some punk with a hi-res button cam and a pocket data device can stream a film live from the cinema to the cloud on the day it breaks in the box office for his partners in crime to compress and upload from some third world street café.....
some simple measures would prevent this from being possible but there not taken (like putting in some EM shielding to the theatres so the wifi/cell services don't work inside the building), having an ir backlight to the display (does nothing to human eyes at low intensity but blocks camera's from getting a picture) yet they don't do this not because it would cost them money but because suing random people for crimes others have perpetrated is a lot cheaper and far more lucrative.
the best bet is just stream stuff, that way its not a data download and then you cant get sued no matter if it was legit or not ..... after all its a criminal offence to use certain file sharing programs these days, they should either criminalise it entirely or just stop messing about
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
Thunderclap
Grafter
Posts: 673
Registered: 08-09-2008

Re: On Line Piracy

Cool This is going to be a fabulous grey area that's going to keep lawyers in BMWs for the next thirty years.
Sadly we are entering an era of American style acusation equals certain guilt; a time when evidence is either minimal, non-existent, or unavailible for scrutiny due to data protection. This now creates an interesting perspective for those providing public WiFi, like in libraries, restuarants or even the BT/FON hotspot that comes with your BT contract, don't you think? The only proof is an illegal download was done on a given IP at a given time. But by whome, who knows? Yes the network owner has a duty to ensure the network isn't abused, but what happens when the bulk downloaders start hacking their father's corporate network using a VPN client and spoof browsers? Downloaders are savvy people, the law makers and their media corporation puppet masters are not. Sadly the ISP - PlusNet included - is stuck in the middle policing another government fudge. Anyway, given the digital instrusion of the NSA and GCHQ, aren't they be the ones who should be sending out letters on behalf of Sony?
Community Veteran
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Registered: 11-08-2007

Re: On Line Piracy

I like how the ISP "Andrews & Arnold" deal with the government proposals - http://aa.net.uk/kb-broadband-realinternet.html  Cool
Quote
The government wants us to offer filtering as an option, so we offer an active choice when you sign up, you choose one of two options:-

  • Unfiltered Internet access - no filtering of any content within the A&A network - you are responsible for any filtering in your own network,

or

  • Censored Internet access - restricted access to unpublished government mandated filter list (plus Daily Mail web site) - but still cannot guarantee kids don't access porn.

If you choose censored you are advised: Sorry, for a censored internet you will have to pick a different ISP or move to North Korea. Our services are all unfiltered.
Is that a good enough active choice for you Mr Cameron?
Community Veteran
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Registered: 02-08-2007

Re: On Line Piracy

My main concern is raising this topic was what would happen if an American company incorrectly  decided I had illegally downloaded software or a film and decided to take action against me, now the next step might be for them to extradite me to America so I could be tried there and knowing the way our government works they would be only to happy to oblige.
Now don't get me wrong I am sure that the Americans are very nice people but the problem would be the food, no way could I exist on big macs, kfc so I am very pleased with all the reassurances given in earlier posts that this will not happen so I can sleep soundly tonight knowing that there will be no 6am knock at the door.
Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley
Community Veteran
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Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: On Line Piracy

Basically this new idea wouldn't have any effect at all
In order to actually charge you with anything they would need to get a court order as at present in order to identify you