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Oldham Election

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Oldham Election

Be interesting to see the outcome of the Election in Oldham today, Labour are expected to hold the seat with a reduced majority, the conservatives have no chance but ukip are the main contenders.
Farage and Cameron are possibly some of the top supporters of Corbyn as the longer he stays in charge of the Labour party the better , the more votes they are likely to get.
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Re: Oldham Election

Quite frankly I can't see Labour lasting much longer if i'm honest. The Lib Dems are history now - they were never a serious threat anyway but now thanks to cleggie they're done for good. They had one shot at making a difference and sold us all down the river.
Labour... everyone is sick of them now! They trashed us, got us into a right mess and now expect to regain our trust overnight? Blair himself a while back said democracy is dead and then said people can't be trusted with their own vote! Now we have Corbyn arguing that war is wrong.. yet Labour never had a problem committing it under the Blair era!
UKIP... yes they're gaining ground but its nothing significant.
So we might as well face it... we're stuck with the tories and the SNP. As much as i dislike the SNP and it trying to break the union, I do think they do a reasonably good job of keeping the tories in line. Heck.. I'd probably vote for them as the next government if they didn't want to break up the union as i firmly believe the SNP are not only powerful but also look out for people a lot better than the tories ever wlll.
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
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Re: Oldham Election

Have you moved to Scotland?? You won't be able to vote for the SNP if you haven't Smiley
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Re: Oldham Election

well in theory there is nothing to stop the SNP putting forward a candidate in and english, welsh or northern irish constituency.
however it clearly would be a futile endeavour, much like it is when the tories put forward candidates in scottish constituents.
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Re: Oldham Election

Quote from: artmo
Have you moved to Scotland?? You won't be able to vote for the SNP if you haven't Smiley

Quote from: chenks76
well in theory there is nothing to stop the SNP putting forward a candidate in and english, welsh or northern irish constituency.

What chenks said.
And if they did, I'd vote for them - as long as they keep the union intact purely because I see them as the only real threat to the conservatives who are determined to make life hard for the poor while trying to help the rich get richer. Who needs all that money if they're not going to do anything with it?
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
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Re: Oldham Election

Quote from: 7up
. Who needs all that money if they're not going to do anything with it?


What money are you referring to?
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Re: Oldham Election

Erm.... the money that the rich vacuum up and then keep stashed away in their bank accounts. Typically mates of the tories.
As I mentioned previously  Roll eyes
Still at least Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates are trying to lead the way in redistributing the wealth. Not that i'd ever expect to see any conservative supporters follow suit  Roll eyes
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
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Re: Oldham Election

You really have to lose that chip on your shoulder Smiley
I don't know Zuckerman or Gates politics and I can't imagine you do either. You forgot to mention Buffett in your diatribe - now there is a man that gives his money away and certainly backs the right wing in the US.
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Re: Oldham Election

On the other hand some of the billionaires mentioned either run companies or have large shares in companies that avoid paying tax, so by giving large sums of money to good causes are they really giving money they have saved through tax avoidance ?
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Re: Oldham Election

And if it wasn't for those people running those companies most of the population of this (and just about every other) country would be out of work.
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Re: Oldham Election

You mustn't say that nozzer, it makes sense Wink Wink
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Re: Oldham Election

Who generates the money and who gets it are 2 different things.
ie. The actual workers must generate more money than they are paid otherwise the firm would go bust so it's really down to the profit made at the end of the year, there are millions of small companies and some big ones who make very little and the amount of money made by the directors is small compared to those who make billions are we then saying that those who get their workers to make the most money are the best and they have deserved the billions they make ?
Equally does it excuse them paying the minimum tax possible by registering their company in Luxembourg or similar which has low tax rates.
True they create jobs but without the workers there would be fewer billionaires.
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Re: Oldham Election

I think the billionaires you refer to must be those who took the risk at sinking their money initially into founding a company, which happened to be successful (Zuckerberg, Gates etc). In this case I have no problem. They took the risk and could have lost everything. However, most companies' senior staff just have "jobs" and will never be in a position to reap that kind of reward, but I agree that in some cases these salaries can appear excessive.
If the money generated by the people who work for the company is properly reinvested to grow the company, then I have no problem with that either. It means security for everyone.I personally wouldn't want to run a large company, it's far too stressful and it's also a 365 day a year job, which can be terminated at any time at short notice. Hence the often large salaries.  Most of the money generated by the company should be reinvested or returned to both the workforce (free shares?) and the people who bought shares (and who therefore spent their money in doing so to support the company).
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Re: Oldham Election

It's not uncommon for someone with an, 'Idea' but little or no money to find investment companies who are willing to fund the development so in some cases it's investors who are taking the risk.
Equally anybody can set up a limited company so if things go wrong and the company goes bankrupt then their personal assets are not at risk, some businessmen (and women) have bought the assets of their bankrupt company from the receivers and then set up a similar company with a new name.
Good luck to anyone who sets up a company or is self employed I guess it's much more stressful than working for someone when in most cases you can go home and forget about work until the next day and like yourself I would have no wish to be running a company where a single decision or non decision could cost people their jobs.
However I find it hard to get my head around individuals who make billions, have they really worked that much harder or taken risks that deserve that kind of reward ? Have they used the best accountants to pay the minimum tax and if so is that right. What profit have they made on their products, a reasonable profit is fair but in some cases is it reasonable, any why for example are the price of some goods in the UK higher than in some other countries, the answer is often, 'What the market will stand' but is that fair for consumers.
nanotm
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Re: Oldham Election

ignoring the politics and the capitalist mantra for a second and just look at the two people that you guys pulled out of thin air, gates, started off small with a couple of mates dabbling in code that worked well and got a contract with ibm, then expanded and grew from there... after 20+ years of success he cashed out a chunk of his shares and created a charity that invests In all sorts of good causes and funds youth learning and other worthwhile projects.
Zuckerberg (alledgedly) stole a room mates idea got some investors to fund a data centre and went global cashed out after a few years and walked away from the company, waited a short time then bought back all those shares at a fraction of the price he had sold them for and took over running the company again, now has announced he will give during his lifetime 99% of his shares to a for profit investment company that will fund his life going forwards and the odd charitable venture as he deems fit when it comes along
one epitomises capitalist dog eat dog strongest greed first and the other is a much more radical socialist that doesn't carer for the cash in his account that much and would rather fund other people's futures....
now to disparage those that make money (far from it) but some of them do it for no good reason and others do it to make a change and eradicate some of the socioeconomic boundaries to a successful future for the many rather than the few...
personally I thought this country worked a lot better when the government owned more than 60% of all businesses operating here and whilst some change was needed ot kick it up a gear the wholesale privatisation greatly drained the country of any sense of fairness in line with the greed of a narrow few all destined to pursue the capitalist agenda.
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you