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No Survivors from Airliner Crash

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Re: No Survivors from Airliner Crash

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-15/piece-found-in-crash-wreckage-said-to-show-jet-wa...

A screw-like device found in the wreckage of the Boeing Co. 737 Max 8 that crashed Sunday in Ethiopia has provided investigators with an early clue into what happened, as work begins in France to decode the black boxes recovered from the scene.

The so-called jackscrew, used to set the trim that raises and lowers the plane’s nose, indicates the jet was configured to dive, based on a preliminary review, according to a person familiar with the investigation. The evidence helped persuade U.S. regulators to ground the model, said the person, who requested anonymity to discuss the inquiry.

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Re: No Survivors from Airliner Crash

Boeing wanted to have the Black Box returned to the US for analysis but Ethiopia insisted it was done elsewhere. They asked Germany which refused because they didn't have the facilities to deal with the new technology of the 737max. France was then asked but I wonder if they have the ability to do this. Boeing might eventually be asked to do the analysis.

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Re: No Survivors from Airliner Crash

@artmo 

BEA, the French aero safety organisation, say they can do it. Time will tell.

 

This is the flight data recorder.. a bit mangled.

 

55002b3b44a8b8d167062e48c9b8d1ae.jpeg

 

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Re: No Survivors from Airliner Crash

From  FR24 twitter page...

 

investigation by france.png

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Re: No Survivors from Airliner Crash

An interesting article in today's Sunday Times - sorry, paywalled I'm afraid. Well worth a read if you can get a copy.

It makes some interesting statements that Boeing was aware of problems with the 737 Max from numerous reports.

The 737 Max is crucial to Boeing's performance. It represents 30% of Boeing's revenues and 35% of its profits. 

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Re: No Survivors from Airliner Crash

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6819421/Ethiopians-hold-mass-funeral-plane-crash-victims-17...

 

Daily Mail carrying the story.... you have to scroll down through lots of pics of the coffins etc. to pick out the bits. referring to "similar" flight patterns after take off...of the nose dipping and being corrected and dipping again.  

Interestingly.... the Lion Air plane lasted about 11 minutes after take off... and the Ethiopian about 13 minutes... so there should be a definite link to follow there...

Mention of the "screw jack" on the tail fins that control the attitude during take off and landing. and the software for correcting the "anti-stall"..

 

Interestingly, BOEING are still saying the plane is safe as far as they are concerned...  !  Shocked and they were the last people to agree to the "grounding" of the plane...

 

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Re: No Survivors from Airliner Crash

Boeing Statement.....

 

boeing statement.png

 

 

You will, of course, notice.....  

 

"Safety is our highest priority......."     But they were the last to ground their faulty plane...

If the plane had not been grounded by everybody else.... how long would it have taken for them to ...

 

Examine our aircraft design and operation, and when appropriate,

( after how many crashed planes? would that be, then  ? ?  ) 

institute product updates to further improve safety.

Boeing is finalizing its development,..... of a previously announced...

(was that just after the first crash ? ?   or after the second, before they were grounded by everyone )

software update and pilot training revision that will address the MCAS behaviour...    erroneous sensor inputs..

 

Surely, if they knew about the "erroneous sensor inputs"... that caused the "MCAS behaviour"... that was a "safety issue", and the plane should have been grounded immediately.. if...

 

. as they say... 

 

Safety is our highest priority.........

 

not wait for every one else to do it first.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Re: No Survivors from Airliner Crash


@shutter wrote:

 

Daily Mail carrying the story.... .

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Not the same story. The Sunday Times has done a much more in-depth report. Their report is entitled 'Mayday! Mayday! Are Planes Becoming Too Complex To Fly?'

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Re: No Survivors from Airliner Crash

Airbus (and possibly others) seem to rely on voice commands to the flight crew, like "Terrain, pull up!"  if they sense the aircraft is getting too low.  Having an anti-stall device kick in when the aircraft is climbing could mean that it's programmed to apply long before it should.  I.e. the maximum angle and power used to gain altitude after take-off will have been calculated with quite a large safety margin, and an automatic anti-stall device should only kick in once the aircraft is getting close to the actual danger of stalling.  Perhaps it's better to warn the pilots of  perceived danger and let them use their training and experience to decide what, if any, action is required.

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Re: No Survivors from Airliner Crash

According to the article I read a similar command on the 737 Max. One pilot described 'An undesired nose down situation' with an automated warning bellowing shortly after take off: 'Don't sink! Don't sink!'

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Re: No Survivors from Airliner Crash

Preliminary investigation report....

 

safety notice.png

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Re: No Survivors from Airliner Crash

A report today that Boeing tested their own planes. This could be a serious issue for Boeing.

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20190319/282218012122203

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Re: No Survivors from Airliner Crash

Further confirmation that Boeing had a lot of influence in the safety checks on the 737 Max.

 

Bloomberg has reported that, even well before the debut of the 737 MAX 8 and the crash of ET302, Boeing had a considerable degree of input into the approval of its new aircraft types. It is also reported that the FAA delegated its responsibilities in terms of aircraft safety out to Boeing itself.

In the wake of the crash of ET302, it has been revealed that aircraft manufacturer Boeing wielded a significant amount of input into the approval process of its new planes, Bloomberg reports. The outlet states that Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) staff raised their concerns about the amount of input that Boeing was permitted to exercise back in 2012.

These longstanding concerns were investigated by the Department of Transport (DoT), who said that the FAA has not properly held Boeing to account.

Additionally, it has also been revealed that FAA employees who wished to express concerns over any of Boeing’s new designs feared being punished if they spoke out. Early this week, it was reported by The Seattle Times that, “Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) managers pushed the agency’s safety engineers to delegate safety assessments to Boeing itself, and to speedily approve the resulting analysis.”

Furthermore, Bloomberg reports that, “In recent years, the FAA has shifted more authority over the approval of new aircraft to the manufacturer itself, even allowing Boeing to choose many of the personnel who oversee tests and vouch for safety. Just in the past few months, Congress expanded the outsourcing arrangement even further.”

The cause of the crash of ET302 has not yet been ascertained, but there are concerns that a flaw in the plane’s software – namely, its Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS) – may have played a part in the incident.

Boeing has reiterated that the 737 MAX 8 was compliant with all safety standards.

However, in a statement to Bloomberg, Jim Hall, a former chairman of the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), said that this revelation, “…raises for me the question of whether the agency is properly funded, properly staffed and whether there has been enough independent oversight.”

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Re: No Survivors from Airliner Crash

Boeing has reiterated that the 737 MAX 8 was compliant with all safety standards.

 

 

 

Well, they would do, wouldn`t they?  

 

Be interesting to see the findings of the crash report, especially if it shows negligence/incompetence/scurrilous practice on the side of Boeing ....and how Boeing try to wriggle out of their responsibility on the matters found....

 

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Re: No Survivors from Airliner Crash