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Net Neutrality in the US: Now What?

IanSn
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Registered: 25-09-2011

Net Neutrality in the US: Now What?

Excellent short run-thru of new U.S. law changes of internet use. How it was arrived at, how it works, and what it means.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAxMyTwmu_M
31 REPLIES
nanotm
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Re: Net Neutrality in the US: Now What?

which way did they vote in the end ?
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
IanSn
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Re: Net Neutrality in the US: Now What?

Net neutrality died in the U.S.
But if you watch the vid (can't explain it all here!) it could be rescued somewhat - the law doesn't really make practical sense.
VileReynard
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Re: Net Neutrality in the US: Now What?

http://bgr.com/2014/01/14/net-neutrality-court-ruling/
That site loads rather slowly due to net neutrality obligations... Roll eyes

nanotm
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Re: Net Neutrality in the US: Now What?

they haven't actually voted yet, the proposal is as to whether they should allow monetisation of the internet, something that very few companies actually want and many ISP's don't want it because of the overly difficult way of having to control the flow prioritisation and of course the inevitable problem of having oversold the prioritisation allocation(s)
it seems like only a few major players in the business want the new pay to transit system and half the regulatory board are getting cold feet on the issue according to recent news reports
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
Thunderclap
Grafter
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Re: Net Neutrality in the US: Now What?

Cool The article mentions that ISPs et al "shall not unreasonably discriminate in transmitting lawful traffic over a consumer’s broadband Internet access service" - The fly on the butter is unreasonably discriminate. If it's reasonable to pay more for some kind of premium service then it's not unreasonable to discriminate against those not paying the premium. Vis Business and Economy air travel. [ or unlimited downloads ]
So who needs all that bandwidth anyway? Answer, video on-demand and online gambling services. Which are media sectors with huge political influence at Federal level - let alone over some tiny little county court whose normal business is parking tickets.
Again the US is on a collision course with the EU http://www.wired.com/2014/04/eu-net-neutrality/
Community Veteran
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Registered: 12-08-2007

Re: Net Neutrality in the US: Now What?

This subject was bubbling when I was in the US recently. It will go quiet for a while as the House has gone on vacation and it has other matters to preoccupy it with elections coming up in November.
Here's another video which explains in very simple terms what net neutrality is all about.
Video
The big 4 companies, Comcast, AT&T, Verizon, Time Warner, have a lot of clout and a lot of money to get their way.
nanotm
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Re: Net Neutrality in the US: Now What?

the strange thing is that a priority payment stream trial was run in France last year, it proved a bunch of things,
firstly if you pay for traffic to transit through a particular node there is nothing to prevent that node from overloading itself through falsely advertising itself as free when its actually close to capacity and effectively stalling traffic flow for anyone who isn't paying (the company who owned the node claimed it was a "glitch in the operating code" after 3 months of the internet effectively not working for a lot of people)
secondly you need a single provider of the transitional layer (the backbone) who also owns the delivery end (the isp side) to be able to effectively give priority to those who pay for it (so we will be back to the state owned monopolies of the past) other otherwise content providers will have to pay everyone for there priority in order to ensure there customers actually get the traffic (meaning there paying every company for a dedicated bandwidth)
thirdly if the content provider gains new customers they will need to pay for extra bandwidth in order to get the same priority service for new customers but if that bandwidth has already been sold then there screwed, so no more expansion.....
fourthly because 30% of the bandwidth has to be available for end users so that they may conduct there personal business (emails web browsing etc)
fifthly that public bodies (governments or state broadcasters etc) will need to be given free priority access so that the country can gain access to services without pushing up the cost of providing them giving them an unfair advantage over private businesses
sixthly that any outage caused for whatever means will require compensation to both end users and content providers based on average data transfer rates
and finally in order to be able to provide the proper prioritisation to traffic all data would need to be unencrypted, which would be a major breach of the digital rights act
well that's the final list I'm using but as I understood the report into the matter there's about 200 hundred business reasons not to do it and only 1 reason to do it (more money for the company providing the connection service for not doing anything)

what I found most amusing about the whole test was that it proved that a monopoly would be capable of becoming a super company in charge of everything through operating a series of connection problems over a protracted period of time (why did they need to test the idea just to find that out ?)
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
Thunderclap
Grafter
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Registered: 08-09-2008

Re: Net Neutrality in the US: Now What?

Cool Net Neutrality is analagous to public roads versus toll roads. You go quick or you go with everyone else. And as you say, layers in the delivery cake will require some kind of exclusive ownership - but that's not how the internet is built.
nanotm
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Re: Net Neutrality in the US: Now What?

last time I used a road analogy for the internet I was told off for treating everyone else like they were thick .....
so now i'll leave that to the people making weird campaign vids for youtube  and take it as read that everyone already knows the basics of traffic flow control when transitioning from a motorway into a single lane with vip cavalcades constantly being waved past ahead of the rest of us .......
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
Thunderclap
Grafter
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Registered: 08-09-2008

Re: Net Neutrality in the US: Now What?

Cool Internet traffic being like road traffic is often the only way that real people understand the 'net'. Especially when it comes to questions like, why ain't I getting 32Mbps in the evening? Okay, network experts who shove their LinkedIn link to everyone's inbox would rather you used gateway names, but not everyone needs to know everything - just the concept.
Anyway... issue with NOT( __NET_NEUTRALITY) is knowing who's in the pink limo and who's got the silver Mondeo. I suggest a new TCP/IP attribute VIP=1 - These VIP packets get LIFO not FIFO treatment when hopping along the route. Untill that is, everyone starts using the attribute.... Can't we just have wider roads and faster cars, for everyone?
WTF
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Registered: 14-09-2012

Re: Net Neutrality in the US: Now What?

Someone above suggested that ISPs were not in favour of this: in fact, it was their people working in the FCC who pushed it through - one of the many problems when there's a rotating door between the regulator and industry being regulated, as we in the UK know only too well.  The ISPs see the ability to charge a premium as a great way of increasing profits - despite the fact that, in the US they're billing, on average 3000% of costs ($60 for a service that costs $5 to provide) so they're not exactly struggling.
Other companies lobbying for the change are large internet companies like Amazon, Google etc who see the death of net neutrality as a great way of protecting their dominant positions against start up competitors.
Personally, I think it's only a matter of time before net neutrality dies in the US.  It is, after all an oligarchy according to recent research by Princeton and net neutrality does not favour the oligarchs.  Certainly, it is a first amendment, free speech issue however you can pretty much guarantee that the current Supreme Court - should they ever be called upon to rule - will not see it that way: they're solely concerned with the free speech 'rights' of big business.
nanotm
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Re: Net Neutrality in the US: Now What?

That's what companies like comcast are campaigning against because they haven't invested in their infrastructure at all in the last  20 years so now that they don't have any spare capacity and they increased executive pay to unsustainable levels they need to make twice as much money in order to be able to provide the service, there argument is that content providers are to blame for their bad business practices so they should stump up the cash to rectify the problem,
hopefully the US administration will see the flaws in that logic and deny the motion the bigger companies have so far managed to bribe and cajole into being, but its politics so regardless of what would be best for the country at large it's about as likely as me winning a hundred million on the euro millions.....
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
nanotm
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Re: Net Neutrality in the US: Now What?

@itsme,
the large corporations like google et al are against it not for it, the policy change was argued for by only a few of the bigger isp's who also operate part of the backbone, everyone else is running scared it will happen
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
WTF
Grafter
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Registered: 14-09-2012

Re: Net Neutrality in the US: Now What?

I find it hard to believe that ComCast don't realise that a 'premium' service wouldn't require any actually improvement to the service for the premium paying customer, it will simply mean a drastically reduced service for the non-premium customer.  As everyone will see when this passes.