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`National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot

WildRose52
Grafter
Posts: 507
Registered: ‎23-02-2010

Re: `National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot


Below is the TRUTH and if there is national service, THIS is what our children will be dying for :-
ZIONISM
The Truth will stand on its own merit
A Jewish Defector Warns America:

Benjamin Freedman Speaks
by Benjamin H. Freedman
Now, when United States troops appear in the Middle East to fight with the Zionists as their allies to prevent the return of these people who were evicted from their homes in the 1948 armed insurrection by the Zionists who were transplanted there from Eastern Europe... when that happens, the United States will trigger World War III. - Benjamin Freedman
http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/israel/freedman.htm

Know thy enemy before it is too late.
Israel and zionism
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107939

Note how the Iraqi`s stated in their video :
`PUT AN END TO ZIONISM BEFORE IT ENDS THE WORLD`



Go watch Benjamin Freedman`s famous speech on YouTube before that CENSORSHIP BILL prevents you from learning the TRUTH.
(by the way, Freedman was a well respected Jewish businessman in N.Y.)

Benjamin H. Freedman - A Jewish Defector Warns America (1 of 9)



WildRose52
Grafter
Posts: 507
Registered: ‎23-02-2010

Re: `National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot

(quote) so , if there aren`t enough people like me, VOLUNTEERS, to SERVE the COUNTRY, (and you, as mentioned in item 2).... then where do you expect  them to come from?  Christmas crackers?


STOP fighting illegal wars then.

NO ONE is threatening us right now.


Published on Friday, February 18, 2005 by the Guardian/UK  
Leave Our Country Now
From the first days of the US-British invasion of Iraq, oil workers have resisted foreign occupation

by Hassan Juma'a Awad
Workers in Iraq's southern oilfields began organizing soon after British occupying forces invaded Basra. We founded our union, the Southern Oil Company Union, just 11 days after the fall of Baghdad in April 2003. When the occupation troops stood back and allowed Basra's hospitals, universities and public services to be burned and looted, while they defended only the oil ministry and oilfields, we knew we were dealing with a brutal force prepared to impose its will without regard for human suffering. From the beginning, we were left in no doubt that the US and its allies had come to take control of our oil resources.
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0218-26.htm

NOTE :  Hassan Juma'a Awad  is the President of the Basra Oil Workers Union.
I`m sure he knows what he`s talking about.
He`s given several talks in the U.K. at the invitation of the anti-war groups.
Community Veteran
Posts: 7,371
Thanks: 83
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Registered: ‎30-08-2007

Re: `National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot

If our current (if depleted) armed services are anything to go by. By far the best airmen, sailors and soldiers are those professionals who want to be there. Conscriptee's under duress is hardly the best way to go except to provide cannon fodder.
When I left school at 16, the only thing I wanted to do was join the RAF, and was bitterly disappointed when I failed the medical (my eyesight) But was Ok enough to remain on (but never called) for RAFVR for 5 years.
Did a couple of years in the voluntary Observer Corp (no square bashing, or eyesight requirement surprisingly)
But agree with shutter allowing for the mis-fits, there's a case for some down-to-earth training for a large proportion of the "youth" But Asbo Dog has a very good argument for it to be selective as well. Maybe Territorial for some (week-end) would work for some.
But I repeat its probably only a vote-grabbing proposal at the moment.
Experience; is something you gain, just after you needed it most.

When faced with two choices, simply toss a coin. It works not because it settles the question for you. But because in that brief moment while the coin is in the air. You suddenly know what you are hoping for.
WildRose52
Grafter
Posts: 507
Registered: ‎23-02-2010

Re: `National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot

(quote) :  As for Petlew`s comment..... The Armed services may not "want" the riff-raff and yobs, and social drop-outs that Wildrose is so keen to defend, but those same people, are just the sort of people that would benefit from the training, and skills provided by the National Service...... not only would they benefit personally, but so would society....
Agrered, there would be a very small element that would not benefit, simply because they think like Wildrose, and nothing will ever change the fact that there will always be a criminal element in society..... (end quote)



Shutter....
You fail in your quest to try and twist my words.
I am NOT defending the drop-outs of the day.
I AM AGAINST `ILLEGAL WARS`
i am NOT against the military...
but I AM AGAINST INVADING SOVEREIGN NATIONS
What do you not understand here?


nadger
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Posts: 4,498
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Registered: ‎13-04-2007

Re: `National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot

Quote from: Asbo
and what age would this 2 years of service be at.
We went in at 18 for our two years - this was delayed if people were apprentices or at university.
I remember the fighting in Korea ending whilst I was doing my trade training ( REME) and being relieved that I wouldn't be sent there.
We did have a choice as to where we were posted based on our course results - there was a list of available postings and I chose a command workshop at Colchester. There was one posting to Kenya and a chap who'd signed on for 3 years asked us to leave that for him.
The infrastructure is no longer there to support National Service as we knew it - rather a shame IMHO.
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,699
Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: `National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot

I've never served in the army (too young and anyway, they never had conscription in NI), but Wildrose I wish you'd stop going on about "illegal wars".  Yes there's an argument that we were misled in relation to WMDs in iraq., No I wouldn't trust any politician in that respect, but there have been enough enquiries and enough publicity about the whole thing to confirm the war was legitimately entered into (unless your conspiracy befuddled mind believes the rest of the world conspired (in which case can it be called a conspiracy?)
Your views on conspiracies are well documented in these pages.
Great Britain didn't invade Iraq (the UN did)
Iraq did invade Kuwait (and arguably we should have finished the job we started then)
Had we taken your view in 1939, when Germany invaded Poland, we'd be speaking German.
I don't believe that some nebulous "zionist" group is planning to take over the world, in the same way that I don't believe that "islam" is
I know that these comments will send your blood pressure shooting up, but I think you'll find that 99.9% of the population would agree with me.
Now back to your original point - IF we conscript combat troops, is that a good or bad thing.
The strength of our armed forces , and what makes them among the best in the world, is that they volunteer (for a whole host of reasons), for that reason I believe that conscription for combat troops is not (usually) the best idea.
If we had another global conflict, the rules change.
Do I think that it's a good idea for young people to spend some time giving something back to the society?  Yes, I do.  Youngsters around here, who help to clean up the river bank, and pull the shopping trolleys out, are much less likely to litter, and dump rubbish in the river.
Youngsters who take the time to meet with and help elderly people are much more likely to find respect for them. The possible list is almost endless.
No-one has really suggested that we should send all our 16 year-olds to Iraq (let alone Iran WR!) Conspiracy theorists aside, the idea is that youngsters give something back (voluntarily).
I don't actually think it'll happen - it's all election puff.
One final comment Wildrose - it's those same armed servicemen and women who stand between your right to make outrageous comments, and a concentration camp.
John
WildRose52
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Registered: ‎23-02-2010

Re: `National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot

[quote
Your views on conspiracies are well documented in these pages.
Great Britain didn't invade Iraq (the UN did)



On September 16, 2004 Secretary-General of the United Nations Kofi Annan, speaking on the invasion, said, "I have indicated it was not in conformity with the UN Charter. From our point of view, from the charter point of view, it was illegal/

Lets not forget why David Kelly was killed - and many other truth-tellers have been `suicided` since then.




Community Veteran
Posts: 1,100
Registered: ‎05-04-2007

Re: `National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot

I have got to ask.... What is a legal war compared to an illegal one?
WildRose52
Grafter
Posts: 507
Registered: ‎23-02-2010

Re: `National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot

Obama’s “Civilian National Security Force”
July 16, 2008
It appears candidate Obama, if elected, fully intends to recruit young citizens into something he calls a “national security force,” apparently a large paramilitary group “just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded” as the U.S. military. Obama made passing reference to this disturbing idea in a speech delivered in Chicago on July 2. As should be expected, the corporate media, with the exception on the Chicago Tribune, completely ignored the statement and its implications.
http://www.infowars.com/obamas-civilian-national-security-force/

Yesterday, they were proposing (in the U.S.) that if youngsters signed up and did TEN YEARS `Service` then at the end of the 10 years all
their College fees would be forgiven.
BTW, the speech Obama made is well documented - watch it on YouTube before your government denies you the chance of learning the Truth using that Digital CENSORSHIP Bill !!


WildRose52
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Posts: 507
Registered: ‎23-02-2010

Re: `National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot

Quote from: Spider
I have got to ask.... What is a legal war compared to an illegal one?



In principle no war is good.
The difference is this :
IF (say) Russia threatened to invade us (for no obvious reason)  then are we to believe we should just sit back & allow them to do so?
NO, of course not.    We would expect to rally up the troops (even if meant National Service) in order to protect our sovereignty.
In contrast :  Iraq NEVER threatened us.
The U.S. traded with Saddam Huisain for years - good buddies & all that.
The Bush family were good friends with the Saudi Royal Family and the Bin Ladens!
Someone recommended to me to read the book :  `House of Bush - House of Saud`
Unfortunately I dont get much time for reading.
Ive no doubt that friendship still exists - and might even explain why Barry Soetoro (Obama) bowed down to their Saudi King (or was it a Prince - cant remember - but it was documented in the news - with photos)
The zionists have taken over America.    Our gov too is very zionist orientated.
Google :  Ariel Sharrons famous speech :  `We own America and they know it`
Thing is:  Britain and U.S. are tied at the hip.

 
Community Veteran
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Re: `National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot

Quote from: hulls

Your views on conspiracies are well documented in these pages.

Looks like another set of 'user deleted' posts may be on the way Wink Wink
WildRose52
Grafter
Posts: 507
Registered: ‎23-02-2010

Re: `National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot


What my critics on here might not realise is that Ive been where you are now.
Ive been gutted by many of the things Ive learned over the last few years.
Below is a very good example.
For years I strugged with the issue of whether Israel was a legitimate nation.
I used to hear people talk about zionism and zionists.
In contrast, and as a Christian I found this extremely difficult to come to terms with.
Part of me could see the evil of how the Palestinian ppl were being treated.
As against that, no way could I believe that Israel might be wrong whilst of course, as
a Christian, I`d also been taught that Jesus was a Jew - and therefore who was I to
argue against Israel?
Also, I listened to Iran`s President when he stated that `he had looked at all the ancient maps
and Israel was NOT on any of them`
In contrast, (and again as a Christian) I was aware of the text in Geneisis which said :  `I will
bless those who bless Israel, and curse those who curse Israel`
I spent a long time believing that the Iranian President must somehow be either mistaken OR
must be lying.
Then someone woke me up.....   with this info.....
QUOTE :
The children of Israel were the children of Jacob (Yagoub) the Prophet (father of the Prophet Joseph)
It was just another name that God gave to the Prophet.. 'Israel'... not a place or a state... there never
was a place called Israel they were just decendants of the prophets. (end quote)
Wow, all the lights suddenly went on.....    I now could better understand why the Iranian President
said he couldnt find Israel on any of the ancient maps.
Whilst at the same time, that text in Genesis now made sense - in that God wasnt referring to a place
called Israel but rather a name that had been given to a Prophet, who was the decendant of previous
prophets.
So you see, sometimes it takes an awful long time before the lights of Truth do come on.
When they do then you`ll look back and understand why things are being said to you now that dont appear
to make alot of sense  (hence why people shout `conspiracy theorist`)
The trouble is we no longer have alot of time.
The Govts realise that people are now waking up much more quickly - and they`ve needed to do something
which will silence the Truth -  hence that Digital Bill - which will censor alot of the truth from reaching people.
Please try to refrain from attacking the messenger.
Go and research for yourselves.   Who knows you might find even more interesting things than I have done
and if you do, hopefully you`ll come back and tell me before its too late.
Have a nice day folks.
Community Veteran
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Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: `National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot

One man's conspiracy theorist, is another man's truth teller.  Crazy
itsme
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Re: `National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot

@wildrose52
Please could you get off your soapbox. I come on to these forums for light relief. If I want to be preached at by a particular political view than I would buy a newspaper. It coming to the point that if I see your name against a post I will not open to read the thread.
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Re: `National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot

Sorry for not responding sooner.... I have been out all day, "enjoying life to the full"..... mostly because of the conscripts and volunteers who fought for the freedom of speech, and frreedom of democracy that WildRose is trying to turn into some kind of religious/zionist plot .
I joined the Royal Navy when I was 15 years and 3 months old.... I can remember the date and time I left home..... I caught the 09.20 train from Leicester Midland station to London, on the 5th January 1960.... I was aprehensive, as any 15 year old would be, to be leaving the security of his home...... that security was provided for me by my parents....and my grandparents , who fought in two world wars.... ... fortunately, they returned....
Oh and why did I join the Navy?  because as far back as the age of 9 years old, that is what I wanted to do.....

WildRose.... you keep changing tack .... you started off by saying....
Quote from: WildRose52

`National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot !!!!

Make no mistake this sets a very very dangerous precedence for our children.
We are heading for www3 - dont know when (I`m not a prophet !!)  but it will happen, and right now we DONT have enough soldiers for another war.
Same thing is happening in America.

Then when I point out several excellent reasons for having National Service.....
you start another rant agreeing with my reasons, but changing the emphasis to a rant about the legality of war...
Not only that, but later on in your diatribe, you bring religion into the equation, which had nothing to do with your original statement that you started on....
Either you want to live safely in a country that has a democracy, and armed forces to defend that, OR you want to live in a country that denies you the right to free speech, and demands total subservience to religious bigotry,  which, has been proved to be the start of most of the wars, (legal or not) since time began....
Get real.... If you feel so strongly about something, then go for it.... BUT don`t sit on the fence and argue a point from both sides.
On the one hand you are saying that National Service " is a very very dangerous precedent for our children"
"We are heading for www3 - dont know when (I`m not a prophet !!)  but it will happen, and right now we DONT have enough soldiers for another war."

then agree that (part of ) National Service is a good thing for them.... (but only the part that you like).....
and the bit you don`t like...... the training of your children, so that we DO have enough soldiers when we need them most.....  (like for national disasters and "nice things like that".... )
after the war has started.... is a bit late for training.... as several european countries realized when the Germans rolled all over them with tanks ....(conveniently forgotten about that hadn`t you)
No, Sorry WildRose..... I do not twist your words..... everyone can read them....
I just point out the facts that you have presented to me, and quite frankly they just do not stand up to scrutiny..... hence your accusation that I am twisting your words....
Others on this thread, seem to be of the opinion that your rants are of a purely political/religious nature,
and here is a quote that I can definitely use to prove a point....
Quote

What my critics on here might not realise is that Ive been where you are now.
Ive been gutted by many of the things Ive learned over the last few years.

So where have you been?  
Have you been in the Services?
have you been to countries devastated by floods,?
have you been involved in a Sea Rescue with waves 40 to 50 feet high crashing over your ship?
Have you been to sea two days before christmas day, and raced to assist a passenger liner ON FIRE .... AT SEA.... then had to collect the dead and burned bodies from the sea around the ship as it gradually sinks.... only to spend Christmas Day in Gibraltar, taking those same bodies ashore for identification, and burial......
I doubt you have done ANY of that.... WELL I HAVE... I was 17 at the time.... and had just finished my training....
It came in very handy, helping me to cope with the situations presented to me...... and what is more. it is still a source of assistance to me in my present life..... I am 65 years old........
Joining the Royal Navy at 15 and 3 months, was the BEST thing that ever happened to me, and my life has been forever guided by the training I received from it....
NO, you don`t tell me you have "been there".... and don`t try to rely on religion to emphasize your points...