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`National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot

WildRose52
Grafter
Posts: 507
Registered: 23-02-2010

`National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot

`National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot !!!!
On a visit with his party leader in west London, Mr Johnson called for the Conservatives' mooted civilian national service scheme to be made compulsory rather than voluntary.
Later, as he chatted with the pensioners, the Tory leader suggested that teenagers participating in the scheme could do some service with the Armed Forces.
"It might have a military side. The military are keen to get involved," he said.
Read the story here :
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/election-2010/7570874/General-Election-2010-Boris-Johnson-challenges...
Make no mistake this sets a very very dangerous precedence for our children.
It would get UK in line with most other EU states where service is compulsory..
Are you prepared to allow your sons and daughters to enlist for something which, no doubt in the long term will lead to them being sent to the M.E. to go and kill Iranians?
We are heading for www3 - dont know when (I`m not a prophet !!)  but it will happen, and right now we DONT have enough soldiers for another war.
Same thing is happening in America.
Alex Jones had a story on his news site earlier in which it was stated that if American kids sign up for TEN YEARS then at the end of the ten year period all of their college debts will be forgiven.

61 REPLIES
Moominfish
Grafter
Posts: 213
Registered: 19-03-2010

Re: `National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot

IF this is really afoot, I can tell you now I won't allow my sons or daughters to be sent off to war to be killed like the countless millions already dead for no reason, if the iraqis and afghanis want to kill each other let them, it's nothing to do with us, but don't be sending our troops over there when it's clear the chance of surviving is slim to none, so many young service men and women are killed for no reason when we don't even have anything to do with the bloody stupid iraqis who'd rather blow each other up than sit down for a good family meal and watch a DVD!
Community Veteran
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Re: `National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot

BOOM !
Just shot yourself in the foot.........
Quote

and right now we DONT have enough soldiers for another war.

Yes, You are right. we don`t have enough soldiers for another war, and if we don`t get enough through volunteers.... you and your ilk will be crying to the government, saying why don`t you do something about these terrorists who keep blowing us up..... why don`t you send in the soldiers to help out with the floods, ..... why don`t you send in the soldiers, to help out with the fire engines..... why don`t you send in the soldiers to .......
National Service was abolished some 50 odd years ago,...... since then, we, (the UK) has participated in several wars...and we never had enough troops.... soldiers, sailors, or airmen.....
I joined the Royal Navy...... by choice.... in 1960 served my country, and your father and mother`s security was guaranteed by people like me..... volunteers, and has been, ever since national service was abolished....
With a "compulsory" National Service, the youth of this country would be instilled with much more than learning how to shoot big guns at people....
1. Self Respect
2. Respect for others
3. Respect for other people`s rights and property
4. Respect for older people.
5. Respect for their PARENTS....
6 Self Discipline.  (or how to behave "properly" with the above 5 points in mind)
7 Discipline.... or respect for the law.... (which your namby pamby way of life is now controlled by the yobs and druggies) are you afraid to go out alone at night?
8. Personal Discipline. or how to stand up and take care of yourself, with respect to the world and environment around you.
9. Personal Discipline.  Being able to use your own brain, and initiative to carry out difficult decisions.
10. Personal Training... Learning a trade. Education improvement. Gain Educational Degree Becoming a useful member of society....
11. Having a pride in yourself, your personal appearance, and your country.
12. Having a wider understanding of world affairs, and how each country`s actions affect your own country and way of life, not just what happened down the club last night or on the street corner.
In other words..... generally all the above points..... (and some I have probably missed)  are what the Youth of today need....
Where do you think the soldiers who help out with building bridges during floods, etc.etc.etc. get their training and expertiese from? ? ?  There are hundreds of situations that require similar and vastly different skills that NONE of todays youth will ever get because they are being DENIED  it by their parents attitude that soldiers only join up to get killed in foreign wars that don`t really concern them personally.
Which would you rather say to your neighbour or friends.......
MY son is in the Army/Navy/Airforce/Marines..... and he has been to ........ (fill in your own list of countries /disaster areas)_ and helped with ...... (again fill in your own scenarios)
or
My son has just come home from the job centre, he can`t get a job, cos he has no skills/training/education/personal pride....


WildRose52
Grafter
Posts: 507
Registered: 23-02-2010

Re: `National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot

Quote from: Moominfish

IF this is really afoot, I can tell you now I won't allow my sons or daughters to be sent off to war to be killed like the countless millions already dead for no reason, if the iraqis and afghanis want to kill each other let them, it's nothing to do with us, but don't be sending our troops over there when it's clear the chance of surviving is slim to none, so many young service men and women are killed for no reason
when we don't even have anything to do with the bloody stupid iraqis who'd rather blow each other up than sit down for a good family meal and watch a DVD!



A resounding amen to the first part of your comment, I couldnt agree more.
Iraq never had any WMD - it was all a big lie -  but after the invasion we sure as hell gave them plenty in the form depleted uranium.
As regards the second part of your comment:  they are not `bloody stupid iraqis` but rather human beings just like we are.
Granted there was always squirmishes between the various islamic groups, but Saddam kept them under control in his own way (and in their culture `their ways are not our ways)  but they didnt deserve to be invaded.
We might even liken those groups to what we know went on in Ireland between catholics and prodestants for so long.    Its basically a religious struggle between groups and it still exists in Iraq even now.
Below, the truth about Iraq


The first few minutes is footage of what Colin Powell & Condi Rice were saying pre-invasion, and then it continues onto what the Iraqis stated.
A transcript of the video can be read here :
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7468.htm
Back to the topic of `National Service`.....     the problem is, now we`ve been dragged into Europe, I really dont know how we stand on this subject.
What I do believe, however, is that our little country has been sold out.
I would urge people to learn about the E.U. before the videos below join the one above in the dustbin of history :-
David Noakes on Edge Media TV: 1/11 'Exposing The EU Dictatorship'



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Re: `National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot

Just the sort of response I expected.....
If you want to argue a point...... completely disregard the opposition, and start a new topic on a similar vein....
So, answer the questions I put at the bottom....
which I enclose in quotes...... in case you missed them....
Quote

Where do you think the soldiers who help out with building bridges during floods, etc.etc.etc. get their training and expertiese from? ? ?  There are hundreds of situations that require similar and vastly different skills that NONE of todays youth will ever get because they are being DENIED  it by their parents attitude that soldiers only join up to get killed in foreign wars that don`t really concern them personally.
Which would you rather say to your neighbour or friends.......
MY son is in the Army/Navy/Airforce/Marines..... and he has been to ........ (fill in your own list of countries /disaster areas)_ and helped with ...... (again fill in your own scenarios)
or
My son has just come home from the job centre, he can`t get a job, cos he has no skills/training/education/personal pride....

WildRose52
Grafter
Posts: 507
Registered: 23-02-2010

Re: `National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot


Shutter,
I agree with your list of 12 points about respect, but I CANNOT and will not ever agree that a National Service whereby our kids are sent to fight illegal wars in sovereign nations is the way to instill respect.
Please dont play the terrorist card.   Osama Bin Laden is DEAD, and so is the lady who spilled the beans about his death (namely Benazir Bhutto)
I would agree our youth culture badly needs to learn respect -  and so do our Govt leaders !!!!!
Enough of the lies and deception.
WildRose52
Grafter
Posts: 507
Registered: 23-02-2010

Re: `National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot


I would much prefer my child to come home from a job centre (provided they were genuinely seeking work)  than for them to come home from a killing field in a sovereign nation that NEVER threatened us.
I`m sure his /her conscience would be clear - and so would mine.
Does that answer your question.
Those who live by the sword will die by the sword.

Community Veteran
Posts: 1,100
Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: `National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot

One person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter. I think however two issues are getting mixed up here. Should we supply troops to fight other peoples wars and should their be National Service. Why can't we have the latter without the former?
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Re: `National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot

Well, I am PROUD to say I SERVED MY COUNTRY, AND MY GOVERNMENT for 12 years. which is more than what your child can be proud of....
Let`s see now...... will they be saying.....
I am proud that I went to the jobcentre, and kept the government employees there, in a worthwhile occupation, whilst I lazed around street corners pretending to be a good citizen, while somebody else risks their life for me...
not necessarily fighting wars.... but rescuing idiots from themselves..... (air sea rescue).... or situations as flood disaster..... earthquake relief and all it`s associated logisitics...
no, because it would never cross their tiny uninformed minds that there really was a big wide world out there,./.................
just waiting for them to use the training and skills, they have gained during their "national service", ... to enjoy.......
The furthest their mind would travel is to the nearest corner/drug dealer/pub and back home again....
Quote

I would agree our youth culture badly needs to learn respect -  and so do our Govt leaders !!!!!
Enough of the lies and deception.

1. you agree that our youth culture badly needs to learn respect....... so how do you propose they do that...... from their parents?   ha ha ha ha ha ha !
2. and so doe our Govt leaders....... You have the power (guarded for you by the very troops you so despise) to be able to change your government...... MAY 6 th..... (many countries do not.....)
3...Enough of the lies and deception..... Take that as read then.....why are you lying and deceiving yourself ?
Community Veteran
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Re: `National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot

Yes, it is possible to have a "national service" on military lines..... the best thing about it is, it only lasts for a limited time.... usually 2 years... after which the personell are allowed to leave, or sign on for further service....
the point being, that the disciplines they are trained to use, give them an excellent start on their future..... and they have the choice to use them or abuse them.....
unfortunately "Wildrose" `s (and others who agree with that point of view)  children will be denied that start in life and therefore become the losers......
WildRose52
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Posts: 507
Registered: 23-02-2010

Re: `National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot

Quote from: shutter
Well, I am PROUD to say I SERVED MY COUNTRY, AND MY GOVERNMENT for 12 years. which is more than what your child can be proud of....
Let`s see now...... will they be saying.....
I am proud that I went to the jobcentre, and kept the government employees there, in a worthwhile occupation, whilst I lazed around street corners pretending to be a good citizen, while somebody else risks their life for me...
not necessarily fighting wars.... but rescuing idiots from themselves..... (air sea rescue).... or situations as flood disaster..... earthquake relief and all it`s associated logisitics...
no, because it would never cross their tiny uninformed minds that there really was a big wide world out there,./.................
just waiting for them to use the training and skills, they have gained during their "national service", ... to enjoy.......
The furthest their mind would travel is to the nearest corner/drug dealer/pub and back home again....
Quote

I would agree our youth culture badly needs to learn respect -  and so do our Govt leaders !!!!!
Enough of the lies and deception.

1. you agree that our youth culture badly needs to learn respect....... so how do you propose they do that...... from their parents?   ha ha ha ha ha ha !
2. and so doe our Govt leaders....... You have the power (guarded for you by the very troops you so despise) to be able to change your government...... MAY 6 th..... (many countries do not.....)
3...Enough of the lies and deception..... Take that as read then.....why are you lying and deceiving yourself ?




Shutter....
The argument here ISN`T about any dislike for soldiers.
I have every respect for the military.
What I do believe however is that our military has its uses :  for example :
1. If our country is threatened or physically attacked - then yes we need our military to guard our shores and see off any REAL invaders.
2. To serve in other roles such as disaster management.
Please just answer me this :
DID IRAQ THREATEN THE U.K. HOMELAND?  (or even America)?
If the answer is `no` - then tell me :  WHY did we invade Iraq?
Blair and Bush should be tried at the Hague for WAR CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY.

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Re: `National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot

Whilst I lean towards shutter with this. There is an argument that asks whether the armed services want that riff-raff, yobs and social drop-outs that our society seems to throw up with ease these days any more than we do. Two years in an armed service is unlikely to change the attitudes of career criminals, indeed it may simply improve their training for their chosen way of life.
And anyway, proposals are one thing before an election, hard facts after it are another.
Experience; is something you gain, just after you needed it most.

When faced with two choices, simply toss a coin. It works not because it settles the question for you. But because in that brief moment while the coin is in the air. You suddenly know what you are hoping for.
WildRose52
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Posts: 507
Registered: 23-02-2010

Re: `National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot

Shutter,
Sorry I did forget to say:  I`m not against this `national service` for voluntary work - the principle is fine.
But I am against it if its a back-door to send the youth to fight ILLEGAL wars.
Yes the kids should learn respect from their parents.  Its a parents duty to instill respect in their off spring.
Of course, many parents fail in that duty.
Schools too have a part to play, and I am and always have been against how they removed disciple from the schools.
Displine at home, & at school never did me any harm.
In short the ONLY thing I am against is this country taking part in ILLEGAL WARS.

a tongue-in-cheek POETIC look at the wars

We must start a war
We`re the `great satan` and `beast`
The dollars a`fallin`
and the OIL`s in the EAST !!!

Iran, Pakistan
Why the hell do we care
Korea or Iraq
Or that great Russian `bear` !!

We`ve ships in the Gulf
and more `bases` we`ll build
We`ll keep on a bombin`
`til our coffers are filled !!

Osama is dead
But he`s good for the vids
The greater the war
The more `contracts` and bids !!

We must fight al-qaeda
and Ahmadinejad too
Saddam had NO weapons
so we left them d.u.

Those Sunnis and Shia`s
We just want their OIL
and Blackwater can take
what`s left of the spoil

911 - they werent guilty
We just made an error
But god told us to fight  (aka satan)
This bloody war on terror


ODE  TO  AMERICA
Sons of the Republic
Obama wont save
Too many wars....
Sent your sons to the grave
Prez of the Republic
Your war cries were sent
Up into heaven
So you`d better REPENT
Your dollar collapsing
The `Wall`s` falling down
Adulturous woman
Your face like a clown
How long will you stand
With your guns & your gold
The greed and the blood
All mingled with mold
Your kids are a-dying
Your babes are aborted
You best listen up
And get yourselves sorted
Your flag has been cheapened
Now tattered and torn
And soaked with the blood
of innocents aborted, not born
Your schools are a den
Teaching evil and vice
Your once great men
Now as timid as mice
Your Bibles are hidden
Neath all your abominations
You`re crimes to humanity
A disgrace in all nations
Your Constitution corrupted
Beyond recognition
You`ve cast out morality
And earned Gods indignation
Your land it is shaking
And many are afraid
You look to Obama
And hope to be saved
Sons of the Republic
You`re stirred but not shaken
Oh what will it take
Before you`re fully AWAKEN ?


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Re: `National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot

Quote from: WildRose52

`National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot !!!!

Make no mistake this sets a very very dangerous precedence for our children.
It would get UK in line with most other EU states where service is compulsory..
Are you prepared to allow your sons and daughters to enlist for something which, no doubt in the long term will lead to them being sent to the M.E. to go and kill Iranians?
We are heading for www3 - dont know when (I`m not a prophet !!)  but it will happen, and right now we DONT have enough soldiers for another war.


Quote

I have every respect for the military.
What I do believe however is that our military has its uses :  for example :
1. If our country is threatened or physically attacked - then yes we need our military to guard our shores and see off any REAL invaders.
2. To serve in other roles such as disaster management.

so , if there aren`t enough people like me, VOLUNTEERS, to SERVE the COUNTRY, (and you, as mentioned in item 2).... then where do you expect  them to come from?  Christmas crackers?

As for Petlew`s comment..... The Armed services may not "want" the riff-raff and yobs, and social drop-outs that Wildrose is so keen to defend, but those same people, are just the sort of people that would benefit from the training, and skills provided by the National Service...... not only would they benefit personally, but so would society....

Agrered, there would be a very small element that would not benefit, simply because they think like Wildrose, and nothing will ever change the fact that there will always be a criminal element in society.....
however, the number of "hangers-on" to that society would be severely reduced as a consequence of the training and skills,discipline, and sense of PRIDE instilled in them that the Police and Criminal justice system would be able to cope with the "drop-outs" of the National Service system.  
Perhaps WildRose would then feel safe at home, knowing that someone is not going to creep in the house and steal the tv, whilst they are asleep, to fund a drugs habit.......
scootie
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Registered: 03-11-2007

Re: `National Service` for our sons and daughters is afoot

and what age would this 2 years of service be at. what about those like my self that left school at 15 to work with my dad's 2 man company and learn the trade of building beautiful stone houses that go for 500,000 to over a million now days.
if this national service had been inplace would the goverment had seen me as a drop out at 15 and forced me into doing somthing i didnt want to do and lose the skill ive learnt, which if this country did come under true danger again since 1947 then you guys with your bombed out house would have less people like my self that learnt a skill with out the help of the goverment.
i can see the gov forcing people like my self into a milltary service because on there database i would of seemed to have been a drop out instead of learning one of man's most needed skills, the building of are caves.
asbo beats his chest, and wonders why the gov only goes on what can be stored on a disk and left on a train
its mine and my childrens human right to choice what path they take to learning a skill, and my children will certainly not be forced into taking a carrer path they dont want to take. if one of them wants to choice a carrer in the army then great the national service would be a place they could start and find out if the life in the army is somthing they want to take further