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NHS Database

Midnight_Caller
Rising Star
Posts: 4,143
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Registered: 15-04-2007

NHS Database

Hi All
Just seen this:
[quote="The Telegraph"]
EU proposals could outlaw giant NHS database
Proposed EU laws could render £50 million NHS database illegal, senior officials warn
Plans for an NHS database containing records of all patients in England could be scuppered by proposed European Union laws which would render the scheme illegal.
Every household is being sent a leaflet this month informing them that from April, their medical histories will be shared with researchers and pharmaceutical companies on the database unless they opt out.
But board papers drawn up by NHS senior officials ahead of a meeting today suggest that a draft EU law — which will not go to a vote until next year at the earliest — would mean the national scheme and other large research projects already under way would have to be scrapped.
Read More Here
27 REPLIES
Community Veteran
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Registered: 06-11-2007

Re: NHS Database

Do you ever find any "good news" in your research?  ( just wondered )
Community Veteran
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Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: NHS Database

This is apparently the actual leaflet http://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/cd-leaflet-01-14.pdf
If it is to be believed then this has all the hallmarks of scaremongering
Quote
We will use information such as your postcode and NHS number to link your records from these different places. Records are linked in a secure system so your identity is protected.
Details that could identify you will be removed before your information is made available  to others, such as those planning NHS services and approved researchers.
WTF
Grafter
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Registered: 14-09-2012

Re: NHS Database

[quote="The Telegraph"]
EU proposals could outlaw giant NHS database
Proposed EU laws could render £50 million NHS database illegal ..
But board papers drawn up by NHS senior officials ahead of a meeting today suggest that a draft EU law .. would mean the national scheme and other large research projects already under way would have to be scrapped
Err .. so actually nothing to do with the database at all but a potential problem for medical researchers who are using - or intend to use - the data
Jeez!  Don't these people even read their own copy  Roll eyes
Midnight_Caller
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Registered: 15-04-2007

Re: NHS Database

@WTF, Yes I get my text reader to read it! 
I think you should read it again.
@shutter, You made me laff.  Smiley
nanotm
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Registered: 11-02-2013

Re: NHS Database

given that the current national nhs database already cross links medical records through various healthcare providers for patients (which is why you don't have to wait while they physically take your notes anywhere anymore before getting consultations or treatment) the new database there proposing is to effectively copy the existing one and make records available to various medical groups /teams in order to better provide care, currently such data mining has to be done 5 years behind the fact via NAO/WHO/NICE submitted copies (which generally are only those things catered for under RIDDOR) and this will allow far greater scrutiny of care organisations in comparison to there peers.
the proposed EU legislation actually is idiotic and will disrupt an awful lot of stuff (not just an NHS proposal) including the ability of the police to operate or identify a people based on car details or address data, etc etc basically any information you provide someone will require explicit permission to be granted by the individual to the data holder in order for it to be disclosed (a grate boon for anyone undertaking a criminal career) 
the DoH might be the only depart that's on the ball enough to have picked up on the problems but the proposed EU legislation will have far greater implications than a simple network share for entitled person(s) to access......
if the EU bill cant be amended or blocked then it signals yet another good reason to get out of the EU - abstract stupidity of the technocrats who keep producing junk legislation -
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
Community Veteran
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Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: NHS Database

Quote from: shutter
Do you ever find any "good news" in your research?   ( just wondered )

Funny you say that. I remember a time when MC used to comment in many threads about many things and would get involved in general chit chat. Now he only seems to post scare mongering doom and gloom stuff.
I like a good anti government conspiracy as much as the next bloke but there is enough and then there is OTT.
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
Thunderclap
Grafter
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Registered: 08-09-2008

Re: NHS Database

Another DB to be cloned by the NSA clowns
nanotm
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Re: NHS Database

why would they waste there resources cloning a database when they could just have a tap point issued to a medical subsidiary and access as required?
realistically speaking there is more risk of google/bing/etc search spiders infesting it than of it being cloned by a not interested in health care in the slightest organisation, personally I would be more worried about it being connected to the internet (no matter how firewalled they think it is) and any idiot in the world being able to pull up medical details simply by searching for them.....
and since google offer "free search technology" for "private use" you can guarantee every bit of data is getting archived by there super computers to make it faster to search ..........
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
Thunderclap
Grafter
Posts: 673
Registered: 08-09-2008

Re: NHS Database

Quote from: nanotm
why would they waste there resources cloning a database...

Bets the NHS DB will be on Amazon AWS [via Akamai] in Dublin? So then you're right, the DB is not in the UK and hence, fair game for any cracker, spider and private security subcontractor. Medical records of politicians, journalists and activists will all be just a click away.
Midnight_Caller
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Re: NHS Database

Ok let me clear up some misunderstanding:
01) I do not have a problem with my doctor sharing relevant information with say the hospital, but I do wen it is been soled off to drug companys, plus soled off to insurance companies, plus soled off to research companies, and so on!
02) From what I understand the database will be run by google London on google's servers in washington DC.
03) The uk government wants patients to add data to the Database such as BP and Blood Glucose through an online portal.
04) The uk government wants all information on line, sow thay can save money by closing down government departments, plus make money of your data by selling it off.
05) AS with the NHS Database Google London will be running the databases.
06) I am not paranoid do some research and you will see that I am right sadly, I wish that I was wrong, but I am not!
Thunderclap
Grafter
Posts: 673
Registered: 08-09-2008

Re: NHS Database

Cool I agree, I have no problem with mine or anyone elses medical data being used by medical people for medical reasons.
I've notice job ads recently for a "Big Data Project - Central London" - so I wonder if this is it? Google's brightly couloured offices are certainly large enough to house a bloated NHS data bureaucracy. Government has already burnt billions on NHS databases before, so maybe this time they'll get it right.
Sadly UK Citizens have rightfully lost all trust in Government to protect their data from illegal access from agencies, criminals, quangos and foreign powers. I would go so far as to say that the UK Government is complicit in data farming whilst giving us the same b*llsh*t that you have nothing to fear from us watching you if, you're doing nothing wrong today - except muslims.
Our NHS data is the property of our people, not [tax evading] Google. Will this NHS Database make the surveillance state ever more invassive. Just keep on taking the tablets so you won't care.
Lips are sealed  Britain is the new East Germany.
nanotm
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Re: NHS Database

see if it was being done as a standalone project instead of a collaborative (over priced) online project by the most intrusive company in the world then it might not be so bad
google has a habit of offering "cheap" services to ensure they manage to reach there end goal of "indexing and storing every bit of data on the internet"
the concept idea behind the data share project is brilliant but sadly like most things the implementation and execution phases are not as advertised (typical of tunnel vision MP's and civil serpents) because they cant see the implications of contracting out all the technical stuff.....
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
Community Veteran
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Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: NHS Database

Quote from: Midnight
Ok let me clear up some misunderstanding:
01) I do not have a problem with my doctor sharing relevant information with say the hospital, but I do wen it is been soled off to drug companys, plus soled off to insurance companies, plus soled off to research companies, and so on!
02) From what I understand the database will be run by google London on google's servers in washington DC.
03) The uk government wants patients to add data to the Database such as BP and Blood Glucose through an online portal.
04) The uk government wants all information on line, sow thay can save money by closing down government departments, plus make money of your data by selling it off.
05) AS with the NHS Database Google London will be running the databases.
06) I am not paranoid do some research and you will see that I am right sadly, I wish that I was wrong, but I am not!

So why do you never post in any other topic these days? You used to be very active here and these days you ONLY post topics about doom and gloom.
It's as if we don't matter to you any more. You never call, write, IM..  Roll eyes
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
WTF
Grafter
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Registered: 14-09-2012

Re: NHS Database

Quote from: Midnight
@WTF, Yes I get my text reader to read it! 
I think you should read it again.

I wasn't referring to you, I was referring to the Daily Telegraph subs / journalists who take a piece that clearly states that something might prevent some research being done using data from a national database and headline it with a claim that the database will have to be scrapped, i.e. a total distortion of what the story actually describes.
Typical anti-EU propoganda: take a perfectly reasonable measure about safe guarding privacy (something I'm sure the Torygraph would heartily approve of, if it weren't the EU doing it) and write a totally distorted horror story about the EU is irrationally banning things and affecting British institutions.
Really annoys me because virtually all the anti-EU arguments are precisely this kind of lies and distortion and no-one calls them on it  Roll eyes