cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Model Engineering Help Please

Community Veteran
Posts: 16,819
Thanks: 1,112
Fixes: 13
Registered: 06-11-2007

Model Engineering Help Please

Desperately seeking help, from a Metal Working Machinist, or engineer, with the right equipment... Please...
See the pic below... it is of two "pointy screws" made of brass, that act as the pivots for a solid brass morse key  (As featured on my latest blog )....
At first sight, they seem to be "o.k.".... but someone has "had a go " at re-pointing them, but they are now uneven on the surfaces, and also not "true" either on the "centre" point, nor on the angle....
Help is needed to re-do the points, to  make them "true" on the centre, and also to a consistant 45 degree angle.
Is there anyone out there, who is capable of doing this for me, please, ?
I will pay for postage both ways, and possibly a small donation to your favourite drink charity  Wink
I have tried a couple of local small engineering type places, but they, either don`t want to, or say it is too small for them to do on their machines....
they are about 25mm long and about 4mm diameter.....  the present "pointy bit" could be sawn off, to start a new point, if needed, as there is some spare "length"... the one without the big knurled nut, has had it removed to show that the other one can also be removed if needed, or put it back on to help with the fixing in a lathe or whatever...
Contact me via P.M.
15 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,307
Thanks: 86
Fixes: 3
Registered: 08-01-2008

Re: Model Engineering Help Please

Is my memory correct that you're in the Portsmouth area?
Might it be worth contacting these guys: http://www.portsmouthmes.co.uk/page2.html
For other locations check here: http://www.modeleng.org/ukclubs.htm
Call me 'w23'
At any given moment in the universe many things happen. Coincidence is a matter of how close these events are in space, time and relationship.
Opinions expressed in forum posts are those of the poster, others may have different views.
Community Veteran
Posts: 16,819
Thanks: 1,112
Fixes: 13
Registered: 06-11-2007

Re: Model Engineering Help Please

Hmm... Ok... Thanks for that,... might come in handy, if there is nobody on here, that can offer help....
Community Veteran
Posts: 5,313
Thanks: 462
Fixes: 1
Registered: 21-03-2011

Re: Model Engineering Help Please

I no longer have access to the tools to work brass (could do if they're made of wood).
I think the problem for the machinist would be gripping the item without damaging the existing thread. I'd bore a hole in a spare piece of stock, thread it and then mount your screw inside to get it ready for turning. Might need some trial and error to work out which thread has been used. Do you need to add any metal or can you lose a mm or two? It is probably easier to make a copy from scratch.
Now Zen, but a +Net residue.
Community Veteran
Posts: 16,819
Thanks: 1,112
Fixes: 13
Registered: 06-11-2007

Re: Model Engineering Help Please

As mentioned in the orginal... it can lose some from the point... about as much as the pointy bit itself,... so a "new point" could be formed, without any detriment to its usage...
Not sure what the thread is... could be metric... probably is, as its quite modern...
Community Veteran
Posts: 16,819
Thanks: 1,112
Fixes: 13
Registered: 06-11-2007

Re: Model Engineering Help Please

update...... sent an email to the local model engineering club.... but so far...... no response...
strange, as , on their website... they are bemoaning the fact they will probably close because of no new members in the past year ...
(OK so I`m not likely to become a member... but a response would have shown their commitment, and possibly got me to join, if I were slightly interested..... ).


So... still open to offers from all you engineering chaps out there, with nothing engineering to do, so you spend all your time on the forum    Cheesy Cheesy
RobPN
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 796
Thanks: 75
Fixes: 1
Registered: 17-05-2013

Re: Model Engineering Help Please

I'm pretty sure you could make a good enough job of it yourself with a bit of ingenuity, even lacking a lathe   Wink
Further to AlaricAdair's post above, if you could determine what the thread is (maybe by trying to screw some known size nuts on to it?), you would then be able to get some internally threaded hex bar (of the type used for circuit board stand-offs for example).  You could then screw a suitable length onto your 'pointy screw' which would then enable you to mount it in a drill chuck (head end in).
Set the drill to rotate at a suitable speed and 'dress' the end of your screw with a file and/or possibly a polishing/finishing stone.  You may need to run the drill in reverse if the two parts won't stay tightly mated.
Community Veteran
Posts: 16,819
Thanks: 1,112
Fixes: 13
Registered: 06-11-2007

Re: Model Engineering Help Please

Agreed on the principle of the drill chuck and a file.... I have tried that on similar brass screws, but because the drill chuck grippers are only 3 in number... to get the screw head properly centred is very difficult... and very obvious if only slightly wrong, when running the drill.  add on the pressure of a file to the "pointy bit" and it then goes off centre very quickly, resulting in an off centre and uneven surface.
Hence the need, really, for an engineering/model maker`s lathe, skill and expertise.....
( Thanks for your input, though.  Wink )
RobPN
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 796
Thanks: 75
Fixes: 1
Registered: 17-05-2013

Re: Model Engineering Help Please

Quote from: shutter
.. but because the drill chuck grippers are only 3 in number... to get the screw head properly centred is very difficult... and very obvious if only slightly wrong, when running the drill.  add on the pressure of a file to the "pointy bit" and it then goes off centre very quickly,

Hence the use of the threaded hex bar - which the screw is then contained within - and the chuck jaws clamp on to the hex bar - no chance of going off-centre.
Community Veteran
Posts: 7,906
Thanks: 588
Fixes: 8
Registered: 02-08-2007

Re: Model Engineering Help Please

Hope you get sorted.............If not it might be back to night school and purchase of a myford lathe.

Smiley Smiley
Community Veteran
Posts: 16,819
Thanks: 1,112
Fixes: 13
Registered: 06-11-2007

Re: Model Engineering Help Please

Myford lathe...... ah yes ... what memories...
My father was a Cabinet Maker, by trade... and he had a marvellous woodworking shed,... originally, when I was about 7 he had a lathe he made himself from a sewing machine treadle drive wheel, and a plank for foot powering the pedal.... the heating was by an old stove, that was marvellous for getting rid of the small off cuts... and shavings and sawdust, and keeping the glue pot hot...!.. he also made his own "mobile" circular saw bench,.. (so he could use it outsid the shed for cutting larger timbers...)... and on to that he married a fantastic MYFORD ML8 wood turning lathe... I learnt to wood turn on the treadle lathe, and using the ML8 was sheer heaven ! ! ! ...  Many an hour was spent woodturning all manner of things, from "lighthouse" and "windmill" shaped table lights, to big wooden bowls on the end plate....

Happy days! ! ...
Community Veteran
Posts: 7,906
Thanks: 588
Fixes: 8
Registered: 02-08-2007

Re: Model Engineering Help Please

I Guess this is a long shot but I wonder if the screws shown in this link are the similar, if not I wonder if they actually make morse keys ?
Might be worth a phone call if all else fails.
http://www.kent-engineers.com/HANDkeyASSEMBLY.htm
Community Veteran
Posts: 16,819
Thanks: 1,112
Fixes: 13
Registered: 06-11-2007

Re: Model Engineering Help Please

Yes, they do make morse keys.... and very good quality too !... although "very nice" ... they are not "my style"...prefer the older one`s with more character and history to them...
The Brass Key I have now, is something of an "oddity" in my collection... as I originally thought it was on a "pinky" coloured bakelite base, which would have given it some age. ... ( and some respectability!!  alongside the others)...
compare the Kent Titanic key with my Ward & Goldstone key of the same era... ( mine is about 1905 date... )  to see what I mean ! !! ...
kent key....  http://www.kent-engineers.com/titanicinfo.htm
My Ward & Goldstone key...  http://nemosphotography.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/ward-goldstone-digital-text-sender-in.html
Kent keys use a rod through the main rocker, whereas my brass key uses the two pointy screws as the pivot point...
I doubt if they would be interested in doing me a favour... or if they did, they would charge an arm and a leg for the privelige....    
Thanks again for the input, though...  Wink
nanotm
Pro
Posts: 5,670
Thanks: 108
Fixes: 1
Registered: 11-02-2013

Re: Model Engineering Help Please

get a thing strip of foam wrap it around the bolt head then use a drill to clamp over that, put the drill into a clamp so it wont move and use a file to dress the end (works best on a bench), that way your bolt head wont get deformed but will rotate true (so long as your drill is running true that is) other options would be to use a rotating grinder with a small tool clamp.
realistically if your bolt is off centre it was probably put into a lath that wasn't set up properly and would likely require completely retooling to get it to run true, in which case it would likely be easier to just replace it, it would most likely be cheaper to just get replacements than getting the two bolts fixed anyway/
there used to be a marine engineering place that did all sorts of radio spares in pompy but no idea if they are still about or not
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
Community Veteran
Posts: 16,819
Thanks: 1,112
Fixes: 13
Registered: 06-11-2007

Re: Model Engineering Help Please

@W23......
Thanks very much for your linky.... eventually got a reply from the secretary, and also contacted one of the members , who has kindly accepted the challenge, and I have been round to see him,... left the screws and he will contact me when he has done the job...
Much appreciated for your research....  Wink