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Junior Doctor`s Strike

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Junior Doctor`s Strike

Do you support the Junior Doctor`s Strike action?
I do..... and my reasoning is simple......  They have a very stressful job, it is not easy to make decisions about treatments, in todays medical world, without thinking about the implications of a wrong diagnosis, ( apart from the obvious). and the margins between the right diagnosis, and the treatments for that diagnosis, against the wrong decision are very fine. 
They are almost all, very dedicated people, who took on the job, to help others.... they are often abused by those they treat, especially in A&E departments, where the stress levels can be really high.
H.G.V. drivers have to abide by working time rules,  in the interests of Road Safety, and the safety of other road users....so that they do not do their job, whilst they are tired from over work and the stress associated with long distance driving, in all weathers, and traffic conditions, trying to keep to a schedule set by their employer. .
Yet this present Health Minister (and others before him)  thinks the people who can save lives and who deal with the aftermath of road accidents,etc.,  do not deserve a decent work-time schedule, nor a decent pay structure for the work they do.  He does not understand how being tired, can affect their decision making processes, which ultimately affects the quality of the NHS in general, due to the need for further medical help, and the problems for the persons involved. i.e. more time off work, for appointments, or treatment periods, leading to family stress, outside the environs of the Junior Doctor`s workplace.
Yes, some people will be angry, that they have had to wait a long time for an appointment, today, and have been told it is cancelled, but surely that is better than being operated on by someone who is so tired, they can barely stand up, yet those Junior Doctors carry on, because "they have to"... and also because they really do want to care for their patients in a professional way, by not letting them down, with cancelled appointments,  because they, themselves, have had to call in sick, to recuperate.
While on the subject.... why not give them a decent title too..... ?  The title " Junior Doctor " does not inspire confidence, despite their knowledge and skill level, and what they actually do.
136 REPLIES
Community Veteran
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Re: Junior Doctor`s Strike

do i support strike action? NO
as i would say for any job, if you don't like the terms then go find another job that have terms that are more acceptable to you.
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Re: Junior Doctor`s Strike

do support strike action - No
Do they have a justified complaint - judging by this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34775980 I don't know but there are two points which stand out
Pay increases - other than inflation linked - in any other profession are linked to skill progression and I don't see why doctors should be any different
A basic pay increase of 11% is definitely not to be sneezed at for effectively moving to a modified shift work system albeit with enhanced pay for the night shift and Sunday working
Quote
Guaranteed pay increases linked to time in the job are also to be scrapped and replaced with a system linked to progression through set training stages.
This, the BMA argues, would affect people who take time out to have a baby, for example.

Working time limits are a totally different question and there the effect is unclear
Quote
the restrictions on the number of hours being worked by doctors are not strong enough, potentially compromising patient safety.
peem
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Re: Junior Doctor`s Strike

Do I support strike action... unequivocally yes.
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Re: Junior Doctor`s Strike

I do not support their strike.
My understanding of the situation, which might be wrong, is the intention of providing greater cover to patients at weekends and other unsocial hours along with providing that service at reasonable cost.
It must be morally and ethically wrong to put anyones health at risk to achieve your demands and that is what those doctors who support this strike are doing.
If any doctor is prepared to strike he or she should really question what they are doing that kind of work for, they are clearly well educated people and if it's money they are after then a number of jobs, some 9 to 5 offer that type of money.
It is also worth comparing how much their pay would be using the proposed rates when compared to junior doctors in other EU countries.
It's also worth remembering the number of hours soldiers work when fighting abroad with a good chance of getting killed or injured (physically as well as mentally) then compare their hours and pay to a junior doctors......... which job would you opt for.
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Re: Junior Doctor`s Strike

No I don't support it.
They're are in privileged jobs and their pay rises are not to be sniffed at when most people today don't even get one.
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Re: Junior Doctor`s Strike

Quote from: chenks76
as i would say for any job, if you don't like the terms then go find another job that have terms that are more acceptable to you.

That is the most stupid suggestion I've seen. There are already problems recruiting sufficient staff - if people do as you suggest the remaining staff will be forced to work even longer hours, will make more mistakes and some patients WILL die as a consequence.
If Hunt's proposals for England go through I suspect hospitals in the counties near Wales will have huge problems with cancelled appointments due to junior doctors doing just as you suggest!
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
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Re: Junior Doctor`s Strike

Quote from: spoon
If Hunt's proposals for England go through I suspect hospitals in the counties near Wales will have huge problems with cancelled appointments due to junior doctors doing just as you suggest!

and there will be plenty of (most likely better educated) doctors from other countries more than happy to replace them.
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Re: Junior Doctor`s Strike

To be honest, I agree with chenks.
I do see your POV Jelv but its the same with any job now - if you don't like it, out - because your employer doesn't give a damn. Doctors leaving.. yes it will put a strain on nurses but lets face it doctors have a far better deal than nurses anyway so they're not going to leave too quickly.
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Re: Junior Doctor`s Strike

Quote from: chenks76
and there will be plenty of (most likely better educated) doctors from other countries more than happy to replace them.

So why are there shortages now?
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
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Re: Junior Doctor`s Strike

This dispute is not about Pay, so much... it is more about how the Junior Doctors are being treated, by the government.... i.e.  50,000 junior doctors, being told they have to do the work of 70,000 junior doctors,.... more of a physical and mental problem,  when they have been on  call, and on duty for 20 hours at a stretch...  because there are not enough Junior Doctors to enable "proper" working hours the same as "normal" people, of 8 hour days. 
I fail to see the logic of those who insist that these highly trained, and qualified people, who accepted the rigorous education and indoctination into their profession, should go against their principles, and just say... " sod you, i`m off".... and then have to find other employment, for which they have no training or qualifactions.  If they did this, the NHS would collapse. and those of you who disgree about the strike, should thiink of how they would manage if they were in need of an A&E department that had no doctors available to see you until , possibly the next day...
A&E departments are already understaffed, because there are not enough doctors to spread the load... an average of 4 hours waiting, whilst bleeding and in pain, is the "norm" now... what would it be like if those doctors said " sod you I`m off".... 
Once again... compare working 20 hours with almost no break between patients, who need your care, advice, and treatment, NOW,  with the Lorry driver who is forced BY LAW to take regular breaks, and record them..  he ( the lorry driver) has much less responsibility , compared to deciding which drugs, or which part of you to cut, and when, etc. to make you well again.

Perhaps those who think that "immigrant" doctors will jump at the chance to work in the NHS, should consider the implications, both of language and cultural differences, when that same "immigrant" doctor, who has been on duty and on call for 20 hours, misreads a patients notes, because his english is not up to scratch, and gives you the wrong drugs because he doesn`t understand properly, and because he is also, literally, tired out, and stressed to the limit....
After finishing his 20 hours, he has but a short period of time to recuperate, before his next shift... of another 20 hours..
Those who "nay say"... should consider carefully all the implications of being treated by someone who, with all the best intentions, is too tired to think properly......... because there are not enough Junior Doctors to spread the load more evently amongst themselves....
... If doctors leave, it will put a strain on the nurses.... Oh yeah ?  and that`s a good thing is it ?

  NO... because then the caring nurses , who look after you after your operation, will also be leaving... and then you will have no nurses, and no NHS...
Most of the Junior Doctors, and Nursing staff, do the job because they love it... they enjoy looking after people, and caring for them... but they cannot give their best to YOU, the patient, if they are tired from over long shift patterns, and stressed  because they know they are not at their best.  or giving their best. 
Hunt`s "solution" to his "Political mandate" of proving 24/7 medical cover at the weekends, by the same number of doctors and nursing staff, as there are at present, working 20 hour shifts, is just exactly what the conservatives are about....  "proving a point".... they make a "political mandate" and then set about proving it, even if it means that those who are on the front line, have to be sacrificed.
Hunt will never work 20 hours in one day...  so it will not affect him.........until..............................................  He has to be treated by the over tired and over stressed Junior Doctor........... 
Community Veteran
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Re: Junior Doctor`s Strike

i have read your opinion and it is duly noted, but my opinion differs.
as they say, you are entitled to yours just as i am entitled to mine.
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Re: Junior Doctor`s Strike

How about a few facts http://www.bma.org.uk/support-at-work/ewtd/ewtd-juniors
Quote
For Junior doctors it means:
   working hours have been reduced from an average of 56 per week to 48, calculated over a period of 26 weeks.  Doctors are entitled to choose to work additional hours if they wish.
   a period of 11 hours continuous rest a day (or compensatory rest to be taken at another time if this is not achieved).
   a day off each week , or two days off in every fortnight (or compensatory rest)
   a 20 minute rest break every 6 hours (or compensatory rest)
<snip>
Working time under EWTD is:
   all time spent at the place or work and available to the employer.  This includes periods when the doctor is not actually working, for example resting during resident on-call periods.

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Re: Junior Doctor`s Strike

I support it as the way I see it, it's like giving HGV drivers more hours on the nation's motorways, increasing the danger of them falling asleep at the wheel and causing deaths, with doctors, if you work them for 15 hours a shift, they're going to make mistakes due to tiredness and exhaustion, which in that line of work, just like the HGV drivers, could result in deaths...
Community Veteran
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Re: Junior Doctor`s Strike

But nobody is suggesting that they work more hours just a change in work patterns and overtime pay and going back to the post by shutter they are not being told to do more work - just spread over 7 days instead of being mostly over 5 days or are you suggesting that if patients are ill over the weekend many aren't treated at present