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It's gone full circle now. We don't have enough engineers!

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It's gone full circle now. We don't have enough engineers!

I saw this on the news last night and there is another forum alight with discussion over it.
We've now not got enough engineers in the UK to fill vacancies.
The government spent years trying to eradicate anyone that was in engineering, dealt with any mucky machines, metal, etc and now they claim we don't have enough!
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Re: It's gone full circle now. We don't have enough engineers!

The CBI (no longer Confederation of Briish Industry, just plain CBI)  is one of those organisations bemoaning the lack of engineers and saying we must have skilled immigrants to provided engineering resource.  Surely nothing to do with underpaying engineers for decades while executives, accountants and marketeers were more highly remunerated. Engineering. They reap the seeds they've sown.
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Re: It's gone full circle now. We don't have enough engineers!

Not having seen the reports - what do they mean by engineers
However doing a bit of digging that seem to be talking about skilled technicians and and workers which is probably down to our stupid governments (plural) wanting 50% of school leavers to go to university instead of encouraging skill based apprenticeships so creaming off a significant proportion who would otherwise have been recipients of the right training
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Re: It's gone full circle now. We don't have enough engineers!

The governments ( plural ) infatuation with getting 16 yr old school leavers into colleges and university places, is to radically reduce the winter unemployment figures.  nowt to do with education .... it saves them money... they don`t have. 
what a pity they could not have come up with a scheme that educates the masses, and gives them the "engineering" "technical" training to get some work out of them on completion, instead of just having the unemployment figures shifted to five years hence.
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Re: It's gone full circle now. We don't have enough engineers!

I did hear something to the effect of....years ago people had computers which virtually demanded software to be written by the owner leading to many people becoming software engineers.
Today the vast majority of software is purchased or downloaded for free leading to a future shortage of software engineers.
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Re: It's gone full circle now. We don't have enough engineers!

Quote from: 7up
We've now not got enough engineers in the UK to fill vacancies.

What they really mean is in UK, we have a significant shortage of highly qualified, experienced, able, capable and motivated engineers, scientists, designers and technologists, in all fields from civil engineering to genetic research and computing, who think National Minimum Wage is a LOT of money and, who can live their lives, pay a mortgage, go on holiday and eat well whilst, being paid a part-time salary for a sixty hour week. It's simple supply and demand - You pay penuts, you get migrants.

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Re: It's gone full circle now. We don't have enough engineers!

Not just a shortage of engineers, same applies to Doctors as we fail to have enough training places.
It comes down to future planning but Governments are not interested in the Future but what's going on now and what will get them the most votes.
In my opinion the old apprenticeship programs where you were employed by a firm and worked with trained staff who allowed you under supervision to complete tasks and guide you along with Day release Plus night school where you could end up with a qualification and know how to do the job were the best things going but like general education the government knew best and mucked these things up.
kmilburn
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Re: It's gone full circle now. We don't have enough engineers!

Quote from: Strat
Today the vast majority of software is purchased or downloaded for free leading to a future shortage of software engineers.

While that accounts for some of it, as indicated by AA, one does have to question the remuneration packages for the people that actually provide a business with its key assets.
I've recently seen a job advert for a junior developer position paying slightly less that I got in my first job when I left university,  15 years ago.  Shocked
It's hardly surprising people are looking at other jobs these days.
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Re: It's gone full circle now. We don't have enough engineers!

Quote from: gleneagles
Not just a shortage of engineers, same applies to Doctors as we fail to have enough training places.

I wouldn't say that. Somehow we get plenty of foreign Doctors being trained and qualified here but not many british ones. The problem (IMO) is that us brits are beig financially screwed in so many ways that many don't want to take the chance / commitment to something in case they fail at it.
Of all the urological people I'd dealt with in the last 7 years, only two were english. The rest were foreigners. I have no issue with that but it does seem that money speaks more than skill these days.
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Re: It's gone full circle now. We don't have enough engineers!

It's been announced that shipyards are to close, must be a fair few engineers there who will want alternative employment.
We should learn from the likes of Germany and pay professional engineers a proper professional wage then we'd have plenty people wanting to join the profession.
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Re: It's gone full circle now. We don't have enough engineers!

Quote from an Engineering Council report in 2011...
For Chartered Engineers:
Total Median Annual Earnings    £55,000  ( i.e. 50% of salaries are above this figure and 50% below)
Mean Annual Earnings                £67,714    (The overall average salary )
Energy and Telecoms Sector mean annual earnings      £80,000

The Survey Overall Mean Salaries data shows that:
60%  earned above £50,000
22% earned above  £80,000
9% earned between £100,000 and £200,000

Salaries have since risen further. We are talking about professionally qualified engineers, ie Chartered Engineers, who are in very short supply and need to be generally imported from other countries for UK project work. Most of the UKs professionally qualified engineers retired in the period 1990 to 2010.
Quote from the Institute of Engineering and Technology referring to senior staff recruitment, ie staff with sufficient experience to properly do the job...
As in previous years, the most serious problems are in recruiting senior staff, particularly for engineering (68%) and recruitment of engineering managers also appears to be a significant challenge (43%). Confidence that companies will be able to recruit suitably qualified personnel to meet their needs this year was low – 35% of companies said “No”, with the two key reasons being a lack of suitably qualified candidates (64%) and shortages or difficulties with specific skills (47%).
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Re: It's gone full circle now. We don't have enough engineers!

Quote from: nozzer
Salaries have since risen further. We are talking about professionally qualified engineers, ie Chartered Engineers, who are in very short supply and need to be generally imported from other countries for UK project work. Most of the UKs professionally qualified engineers retired in the period 1990 to 2010.
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Re: It's gone full circle now. We don't have enough engineers!

Me too!  Cheesy
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Re: It's gone full circle now. We don't have enough engineers!

Quote from: nozzer
For Chartered Engineers:
Total Median Annual Earnings    £55,000  ( i.e. 50% of salaries are above this figure and 50% below)
Mean Annual Earnings                £67,714     (The overall average salary )

I think the Chartered Civil Engineer in my family, who works for a large international consultancy in Central London (which everyone assumes means more pay), would love to be anywhere near the Median, let alone the Mean.   Cry
A chart breaking that down by age would be interesting though.  Wink
Quote from: nozzer
Salaries have since risen further.
Pay was frozen, then cut, for everyone at the consultancy above, in response to the downturn in the recession.
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Re: It's gone full circle now. We don't have enough engineers!

There was a more detailed report in the IMechE magazine a long while ago and the higher salaries mostly reflected engineers in higher management positions and in the over 40's age group. This probably hasn't changed
From memory in my old company the Chartered Engineers who weren't in higher management but just employed as Senior Design Engineers and Section Leaders or Group Engineers (responsible for a small team in the design office) were below the median but this was partly due to the fact that they were carrying out the same role as HNC/HND qualified engineers