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Is your Royal Navy big enough, or man enough?

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Is your Royal Navy big enough, or man enough?

M.O.D. are selling off more warships.... HMS York - Type 42 destroyer up for sale on their website....
Quote
 ** from http://www.bfbs.com/news/worldwide/type-42-destroyers-sale-online-59660.html
The ships are being sold in line with the Government's Strategic Defence Review, which will see the Royal Navy's surface fleet cut from 23 to 19 ships.

this will leave the once "Ruler of the Waves".... and the safeguard of our nations trade on the oceans, with a total of 19 Surface Ships....
Perhaps the Argies will be interested...  Roll eyes
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Re: Is your Royal Navy big enough, or man enough?

Quote from: shutter
Perhaps the Argies will be interested...  Roll eyes

Think they are in a worse state than we are!
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Re: Is your Royal Navy big enough, or man enough?

Sad isn't it. We're crumbling away to nothing.  Sad
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St3
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Re: Is your Royal Navy big enough, or man enough?

lets be honest do we need them ? if theres ever another war it will just be a few nuclear rockets sent here and there and everyones at the gates of heaven or hell
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Re: Is your Royal Navy big enough, or man enough?

wars always start off being small... i.e. a basic misunderstanding/disagreement.....
the Royal Navy ships would be used to deter any agressor from using the nuke option...
not  go to war with the intent of winning it....
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Re: Is your Royal Navy big enough, or man enough?

Quote from: ukste
lets be honest do we need them ? if theres ever another war it will just be a few nuclear rockets sent here and there and everyones at the gates of heaven or hell

Thats the very point though, battleships, warplanes, troops are there to deter the use of nuclear weapons. The less of them we have the higher the probability of the use of nuclear weapons.
Eventually we'll have no armed forces and we'll be backed into a corner where we are forced to use nukes to defend ourselves. At that point we open the door to counter strikes against us.
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Re: Is your Royal Navy big enough, or man enough?

One wonders how many Admirals remain in the Royal Navy. One counts 26, but one may be wrong.
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Re: Is your Royal Navy big enough, or man enough?

Didn´t I read somewhere that an Royal Navy Admirals do not actually retire, but stop work and continue to receive full pay.
Heloman
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Re: Is your Royal Navy big enough, or man enough?

If you did read it, it's wrong!
The most an Admiral can receive is 50%, but that's only after 33 years active service.
http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/F529D336-83CC-4022-BD81-1A67DE1DC143/0/SeniorOfficersPensionBenefitsA...
Fully agree with the OP.  The Navy we once knew will soon become totally toothless.  At present we have ship's  committed to being on station in the Persian Gulf,
Indian Ocean (anti-pirate), West Indies ( anti drugs-runners) to name just a few. The way things are going we're soon going to have to bring them all home.
Like  shutter, I also joined the Navy when we had one. I believe it's always done a good and valuable job. But day by day, it's no longer able to  Angry
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Re: Is your Royal Navy big enough, or man enough?

@Heloman: thanks, I stand corrected.
David_W
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Re: Is your Royal Navy big enough, or man enough?

I guess as technology moves on we require fewer ships to fill the roles currently filled by a larger force?  We have 2 aircraft carriers coming into service around 2020 (okay, 1 with 1 being mothballed) which should provide a better service than 2 of the 1970's generation carriers they are replacing, although they can't be in 2 places at the same time as you could if we had 2 in service.
People we could go to war with though are either so technologically backwards military wise that having a huge navy would be a waste (i.e. Argentina) or are so big that we'd need a navy that we couldn't possibly man.  Our role though, even with a larger navy changed after WW2 to basically looking for Russian subs so do we really need a large navy with a huge variety of ships?
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Re: Is your Royal Navy big enough, or man enough?

Quote from: David
People we could go to war with though are either so technologically backwards military wise that having a huge navy would be a waste

Like the chineese who chrun out 100K+ engineers per year from their educational system compared to our 15k ?
The last I heard the chineese were now way ahead of any western country for technology. Not only do they invent and inspire they also research new technologies too. If you really think they're technologically backwards and no risk to us you are very wrong. The only reason they haven't used their military might or tech against us is because they rely on the west to buy its goods / send them money. When that goes belly up (as it will with our dwindling ability to generate any income) then we're sitting ducks.
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GrahamC
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Re: Is your Royal Navy big enough, or man enough?

The Chinese numbers are huge, but as the population of China is 20+ times greater than that of the UK it's understandable.
As for the Argentines being backward militarily, spend on the military by GDP is above the UK's and is increasing. I very much doubt we could mount the same venture as that in 1982 which I suppose explains the increased UK presence in the Falklands. Better to deter rather than clean up afterwards.
The decision to decommission the Ark Royal before the introduction of a replacement fixed-wing capability is damning, limiting the effectiveness of the RN. Cuts in the RFA will also be an issue if there is a conflict.
David_W
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Re: Is your Royal Navy big enough, or man enough?

Quote from: Sprite
Like the chineese who chrun out 100K+ engineers per year from their educational system compared to our 15k ?

No, the Chinese are in the other category where we would need a Navy of a size we couldn't possibly sustain to maintain a status-quo with them.
As for Argentina, they are a bankrupt nation who are *still* using the same technology they were using during the Falklands War, we could most likely defeat their entire air force with the current stock of Typhoons stationed on the Islands, just 2 Typhoons could take down 20 American F-18's so taking down old machines wouldn't be that much more difficult.  In fact, looking at Wikipedia their current attack fighter was retired from Israel's service in 1977, their interceptor is from the 1960's.
They currently spend $5Billion on their military, the UK spends $62.7Billion (1.1% of GDP Argentina, 2.6% UK - we're the 4th highest spender on our Armed forces) .
We, as a nation, are tiny.  We have a population that puts us 22nd in the world, a GDP that puts us 6th, but a military spend that puts us 4th.  We're no longer an Empire that needs a navy to protect the Empire and project our power around the world to keep the Empire in line, what we need is an armed service which has modern technology that can kick an aggressor in the teeth so hard that they decide it's not worth picking a fight with us, we no longer have a mandate to "go it alone", in fact, the last war we faught on our own was the Falklands, and future wars we fight will be with the support of other nations (the US, France, NATO, UN).  Argentina won't invade though, losing a war again would be pretty unpopular for the Argentinian government.
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Re: Is your Royal Navy big enough, or man enough?

Quote from: David
As for Argentina, they are a bankrupt nation who are *still* using the same technology they were using during the Falklands War,

With which they managed severe damage and loss of life to RN ships using "old" French Dassalt Etendard aircraft and (French) Exocet missiles during that war. Don't write them off, crewed with determined aircrew they could still cause serious damage.
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