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Is the world listening to Greece?

WildRose52
Grafter
Posts: 507
Registered: 23-02-2010

Is the world listening to Greece?


Did anyone see the huge Greek protest banner on the news?
It was spread across the whole facade of a building and read:
"People's of Europe, rise up!"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8659299.stm

Rise up?  hmm, thats funny, when so many in this country need to wake up
before they can even start contemplating rising up lol.

MERVYN KING VOTERS FURY WILL BANISH WINNING PARTY FOR 30 YEARS
http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/172287/Mervyn-King-Voters-fury-will-banish-winning-party-fo...


32 REPLIES
thisoldman
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Posts: 1,220
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Registered: 06-04-2009

Re: Is the world listening to Greece?

good afternoon dear wildrose. Yes, I am watching the scenario carefully, because yesterday I was at an old univ dons conference , where specialists from many disciplines gave their views on how various "events" in the uk are about to unfold and follow on from greece.
I do not wish at this stage to detract from your post so i will post a summary of what the experts from sociology, psychology, economics,
medicine and politics had to say, once i have recovered from the shock of the conference..
But let me just say this: Greece is only the beginning of all our woes:
WildRose52
Grafter
Posts: 507
Registered: 23-02-2010

Re: Is the world listening to Greece?


ThisOldMan,
Kind of you to say `you dont wish to detract from my post`  - but seriously:  if you`ve got information that you feel would benefit
everyone reading this thread, then I dont mind....  feel free to post whatever you feel we all need to know.
thanks.
thisoldman
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Registered: 06-04-2009

Re: Is the world listening to Greece?

tx you wildrose but i need to think very very carefully about posting what was said at the university "think tank" conference, because quite simply, it is very very scary and there are rules here about gloom and doom posts.
I also dont want to detract from your original post.
WildRose52
Grafter
Posts: 507
Registered: 23-02-2010

Re: Is the world listening to Greece?


ThisOldMan,
I can appreciate that you need to respect confidentiality re. what you heard said etc.
I dont see any rules about doom and gloom posts.    In any event its NOT doom &
gloom if it helps other to see whats coming.  It could even save lives in fact.

This is not the Chinese internet (yet) although goodness only knows sometimes it
feels like a cross between that and AOL - where they also tried to silence those who
spoke out, but failed.      There are Laws re. Freedom of Expression, and so long as
speech is not intended to deliberately offend, then FREEDOM STILL EXISTS to speak
out (so long as ppl respect forum rules and dont argue /dont swear etc)
I`m all for freedom lol.    Long may it reign - but I fear its being denied to us very quickly,
and the internet is one area where many are trying to silence the TRUTH.
Whats worse we even pay them to do that  (WildRose confused on that)
thisoldman
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Posts: 1,220
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Registered: 06-04-2009

Re: Is the world listening to Greece?

thank you wildrose.
It is not a question of confidentiality. It is a question of not wanting to scare the life  and soul  out of our devoted PN readers/posters.
I if I may, give you but one example. Please remember that all the views expressed at the conference were by university dons, all highly respected in their various fields.
One example: Prof Terry: Sociology:    " one consequence of the economic fall out will be that that the uk will see some of the worst riots based on religious as opposed to race relations. The immigration influx  over the last 10 years, combined with the rise in uk unemployment will make the usa race relations troubles of the 60s  seem like  kids stuff, compared to what is going to happen in uk inner city areas of high unemployment and religious diversity"
WildRose52
Grafter
Posts: 507
Registered: 23-02-2010

Re: Is the world listening to Greece?


Governments around the world have been preparing for such scenarios for years.
I was sent a `Report` several years ago about the riots and migration that will ensue as a result of
climate change  (`natural` climate change that is, and NOT the propoganda version we keep reading
about from the IPCC and ppl like Gore)
Several years ago GWB in fact ordered a Report to be compiled on this very subject, and I probably do
have a copy of it in my files somewhere.  You will only find the version of it in French online however.
What we are seeing in GREECE today, could very well be the same as what the UK will experience in the
very near future.
Inner cities and built up areas are not going to be safe places to live.
Many have been advising for years :  try and move to a rural location, and also to higher ground.
I have very little hope for this country after tomorrows election.
I have a gut feeling that whoever gets in will come down very heavy on things like pensions and benefits, and
will bring in Tax hikes, including a much higher VAT.
It has long since been said :  if at all possible try and get out of debt.
Sufficient will be the problems just trying to pay our bills, and buy food.
This is why I probably do object when anyone tries to silence these sort of topics.
No disrespect intended, but even the PN moderators /staff etc are going to feel the pinch when it hits the fan.
We will probably see many smaller companies go down the pan (more unemployed) there`s no easy answer
to any of this debt.
Maybe, this is worth thinking about.....    if things get really, really bad....  then ask yourselves which bills will be
the ones you are forced to drop?
I know what my answer is:  whilst my essential services & food for my family come first.
Therefore, I think we should ALL remain supportive of each other, because when people become hard pressed
to make ends meet then its the luxuries like having the internet  (or even a car)  that will be the first to go.
The people of Greece are sounding the warning to us, but are we listening TO THEM?
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,735
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Registered: 02-02-2008

Re: Is the world listening to Greece?

As someone who has known Greece very well over some 40-odd years I totally agree with the person who said recently:
"The UK is NOT Greece"
There are few if any lessons for us from their post-war economy and current troubles.
thisoldman
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Registered: 06-04-2009

Re: Is the world listening to Greece?

well said dear wildrose:
WildRose52
Grafter
Posts: 507
Registered: 23-02-2010

Re: Is the world listening to Greece?


HP Sauce,
I`m not too sure, but I respect your view.
The political parties have already pointed out theres some difficult
decisions will need to be taken in the UK.
I mentioned a few things I believe they will target.
The latest Sky News Video report outlines what their government is
wanting to do, thus causing the people to take to the streets.
SKY VIDEO - Greece
http://tinyurl.com/37fmhwg
People do not take kindly to wage cuts /pension cuts - or wage freezes /pension freezes.
Nor do they take kindly to being told their retirement age is being put on hold.
IF the UK Government, does not do likewise, then how else are we going to get out of all
this debt.
Even Gillian (the granny who confronted Brown) asked him :  `what are you going to do about
all this debt?`    I note that Brown made no reply.
So I think we may have to beg to differ on whether we shall see a repeat of Greece here in
the UK.
People are getting fed up.
David_W
Rising Star
Posts: 2,293
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Registered: 19-07-2007

Re: Is the world listening to Greece?

No politician can say what they are going to do about the debt, if they did, no one would vote for them!
I'm going to increase the age of retirement for men and women to 70, reduce the pension funds for civil servants by 15% in "real terms", freeze pay rises in all public sector areas, police, nurses, doctors, teachers, civil service, job centres.  A freeze on state pensions for 5 years, increase VAT to 20%, scrap the winter fuel allowance, increase duty on petrol by 2% increase duty on ciggies by 10% remove the exemption from road tax on "zero emission" cars, increase road tax by 10%.
Basically whoever wins the next election is going to clobber everyone with tax rises, pay cuts and job losses, everyone knows it's coming but we won't vote for anyone who says that's what they will do, we'll vote for the person who *doesn't* say it, which makes no sense but that's politics.
Will we end up like Greece?  I'm not sure, we should have the ability to pay our debts, they are not due soon unlike Greece.  When you look at debt we only recently finished paying off our "debt" to the US over their help in WW2, sometimes being in debt is a good thing, low interest rates means we can spend now and pay back long term, sure, it'll take another 60 years to clear up this debt (and we'll have a few major recessions in that time) but we have the capability of paying it back, unlike Greece which can't take the action we can.
WildRose52
Grafter
Posts: 507
Registered: 23-02-2010

Re: Is the world listening to Greece?


You`re so right David.
Its what they dont say thats going to count.
I think what upsets ppl though is when they read about the bankers and their
bonuses.  Me thinks the new govt should make them pay it all back, plus the
MPs with some of those expenses lol.    It goes against the grain with people
when they can see that the rich are getting richer, whilst us poor peasants are
becoming more poor by the day.
David_W
Rising Star
Posts: 2,293
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Registered: 19-07-2007

Re: Is the world listening to Greece?

It's politically unsound to chase the bankers.  London is built on the backs of the bankers, inflation went up because the bankers spend so much money, well people from the city anyhow.
All it would take is one small country to say "hey, we're a small country but come HQ your banks here, very low taxes!" and banks would shoot there from all the countries that were heavily taxing them.  We've seen it with manufacturing and China.  Chinese workers will work 12 hour shits for 20p a day, 7 days a week, in the developed world (yucky word that) we cannot compete with China on cost only on quality.
If we buy a motorbike from Japan for £5,000, we expect it to last at least 15-20 years, if we buy the same type of motorbike from China, we expect to have issues with it from year one and then throwing it away within 3 years when it cannot pass it's MOT.
The bank's don't have to worry about quality, they can quite easily manage all their transactions in London, New York, Peckham, whilst having their HQ's in a tax haven, the bankers then claim Non-Dom status for the tax haven so the tax man can't grab any taxes from them.  It's the same with F1 racers, Hamilton got rich and quickly switched from being a UK resident to being a Swiss resident avoiding paying 50% of his "wage" directly to the government.
Until governments through the world crack down on loop-holes like that, the social elite, the rich elite will continue to exploit them to avoid paying 50% tax on their wages (which some people *do* pay, Jeremy Clarkson for instance).  A cap on bonuses?  No problem, the bonus is paid outside the UK into a bank outside the UK, it's paid into the HQ of the bank on some small island which all the bankers now class as their resident, an island with room for 250 people suddenly home to 20,000, odd that!
SRD
Grafter
Posts: 300
Registered: 29-04-2010

Re: Is the world listening to Greece?

In answer to the question posed by the title of the thread - Not if they've got any sense.
WildRose52
Grafter
Posts: 507
Registered: 23-02-2010

Re: Is the world listening to Greece?


Or this, from a writer in the Netherlands :-

Sheeple: Signs That You Might Be Part Of The Herd…
By Giordano Bruno
Neithercorp Press - 05/03/2010
http://neithercorp.us/npress/?p=287

I suppose it could be said that sheep dont see danger until they reach the slaughter house,
and then alas its too late.
That article made me laugh - but its pretty spot on what he says about how ppl react when faced
with the truth that things are about to get rough.