cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Intruder Alert

Infinity
Pro
Posts: 5,601
Thanks: 148
Fixes: 2
Registered: 19-06-2011

Intruder Alert

Police Probe 'Burglar' Death In Britons' Villa
http://news.sky.com/story/1556739/police-probe-burglar-death-in-britons-villa

Talking to our American friends, over Dinner last night, without hesitation, they would all shoot a burglar who had entered their home, but not necessarily to kill them
Of course a “burglar” may have other motives, such as kidnap or killing…
Legally, it depends entirely on the state; some states have adopted what is known as the "castle doctrine" in self-defence, which permits the owner or a resident of a house to shoot an invader without necessarily knowing that such a person poses an actual threat to the life or physical well-being of those within the house.
Castle Doctrine (your Home is your Castle)
In some states, a person is privileged to use deadly force against anyone who unlawfully enters their home. In these states, there is no need to take the time to assess the intruder's ability to use deadly or nonlethal force. However, the specifics and applicability vary state to state.
The following states have specific statutes authorising the "castle doctrine": Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Wisconsin, and Wyoming.
https://www.quora.com/Is-it-legal-for-American-homeowners-to-shoot-suspected-burglars-who-break-into...
In the UK,  what would you do ?
I think here you would need to show Self Defence, in fear of your life, and not hurt someone running away….

We have both external & internal sensors & CCTV, including some IP CCTV, so it is unlikely we would not be unaware of any intruder whilst we were at home.
Plus we can monitor whilst away…..
Additionally, a panic button to the local Police Station, bearing in mind some of the government work we undertake
We had some door locks on the modern upvc doors replaced recently too, to anti-snap versions.
Once the locksmith explained the differences, it was visually obvious which ones were not anti-snap, as you walked about the village & beyond, and how easy it was to snap the older type, and hence gain access using a restricted tool, and all you would hear would be a slight click, un-noticeable at night whilst asleep.
Having some large very protective dogs gives peace of mind too…..

Intruder Alert, Intruder Alert
(courtesy of Lost in Space)
20 REPLIES
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 25,789
Thanks: 1,134
Fixes: 47
Registered: 14-04-2007

Re: Intruder Alert

I have always said if an uninvited visitor enters a property with illegal intent, that person forfeits their human rights.
Any reasonable force to protect persons and property is acceptable.
Customer and Forum Moderator.
Product of the Tyrell Corporation
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,274
Thanks: 339
Fixes: 12
Registered: 24-10-2013

Re: Intruder Alert

and therein lies the problem.
one persons "reasonable" is another persons "extreme".
one person might think it is reasonable to club the person to death, whereas any sane person would agree that is far from reasonable.
one might say that a reasonable reaction to coming across a threatening individual is to remove yourself from the situation, as opposed to engaging with the person.
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 10,023
Thanks: 1,562
Fixes: 19
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Intruder Alert

With that reasoning, you might as well make all the locksmiths unemployed and welcome any and every toe-rag to come and help themselves to your property.
I'm with Strat on this one - if an uninvited person crosses the boundary of your property with clear bad intent (for example under the cover of darkness showing mal-intent) they lose their rights to reasonable consideration.
By the same token you suggest that one should withdraw from the situation, if they do not want to be on the receiving end of lethal action, they should withdraw or better still not be there in the first place.
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,307
Thanks: 86
Fixes: 3
Registered: 08-01-2008

Re: Intruder Alert

Quote from: Strat
I have always said if an uninvited visitor enters a property with illegal intent, that person forfeits their human rights.

Unfortunately, criminals do have human rights and honest people get in serious trouble if they treat scum the way they deserve.  It's the victim whose human rights don't seem to be protected against the activity of criminals.
Quote from: chenks76
one might say that a reasonable reaction to coming across a threatening individual is to remove yourself from the situation, as opposed to engaging with the person.
If we're talking about someone burgling a home, which we are, then you're saying that to just walk away and let them take your property and violate your home is a reasonable reaction, next you'll be saying that locking your doors is wrong because it prevents thieves going about their business.
Call me 'w23'
At any given moment in the universe many things happen. Coincidence is a matter of how close these events are in space, time and relationship.
Opinions expressed in forum posts are those of the poster, others may have different views.
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,274
Thanks: 339
Fixes: 12
Registered: 24-10-2013

Re: Intruder Alert

Quote from: w23
If we're talking about someone burgling a home, which we are, then you're saying that to just walk away and let them take your property and violate your home is a reasonable reaction, next you'll be saying that locking your doors is wrong because it prevents thieves going about their business.

i'm saying that rather get into a situation where you might end up hurt yourself, then be sensible and remove yourself (if possible) from the situation and raise the alarm.
or are you saying that you should engage in a fight with anyone where the end result might be that you are dead and the intruder escapes.
nanotm
Pro
Posts: 5,674
Thanks: 109
Fixes: 1
Registered: 11-02-2013

Re: Intruder Alert

Next time someone invades my house at two in the morning rather than reach for the machete and claw hammer in the tool kit next to the bed in your scenario I should ignore the intruders and let them enter occupied rooms so as not to become embroiled in a legal fracas later on?
You might be happy letting your wife and children get savaged or killed but I will be doing my utmost to decapitate anyone that steps foot on the stairs in such a situation, what's more the law in this country says I am perfectly entitled to do so, so long as I don't defile the corpse in some way.....
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,307
Thanks: 86
Fixes: 3
Registered: 08-01-2008

Re: Intruder Alert

So, if someone stops you in the street and demands that you hand over your wallet, mobile phone and any other valuables you should just hand it over rather than risk a situation where you might get hurt?
If someone threatens your property and family (even just a perceived threat from them being there having broken into your home) then your rights to defend what is yours should far outweigh any 'rights' of the criminal.
In (parts of) the USA, having the right to take any action necessary probably makes it easier to 'scare off' a criminal because they know you have the right to do whatever you think necessary to defend yourself, your family and your property, here they know they are actually protected by the law and you're less likely to be able to defend what is yours lawfully.
Call me 'w23'
At any given moment in the universe many things happen. Coincidence is a matter of how close these events are in space, time and relationship.
Opinions expressed in forum posts are those of the poster, others may have different views.
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,274
Thanks: 339
Fixes: 12
Registered: 24-10-2013

Re: Intruder Alert

Quote from: nanotm
what's more the law in this country says I am perfectly entitled to do so, so long as I don't defile the corpse in some way.....

and which country is that?
as it's certainly not the UK?
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,274
Thanks: 339
Fixes: 12
Registered: 24-10-2013

Re: Intruder Alert

Quote from: w23
So, if someone stops you in the street and demands that you hand over your wallet, mobile phone and any other valuables you should just hand it over rather than risk a situation where you might get hurt?

ask the police what they suggest you should do in that situation.
i'm almost certain they will say don't do anything that could result in you being harmed.
Quote from: w23
If someone threatens your property and family (even just a perceived threat from them being there having broken into your home) then your rights to defend what is yours should far outweigh any 'rights' of the criminal.

"should" is a great word to use, but it's not reality.
someone committing a crime does not mean the law allows you to commit a crime.
Quote from: w23
In (parts of) the USA, having the right to take any action necessary probably makes it easier to 'scare off' a criminal because they know you have the right to do whatever you think necessary to defend yourself, your family and your property, here they know they are actually protected by the law and you're less likely to be able to defend what is yours lawfully.

this ain't the USA.
and the USA is hardly a crime free country, so clearly it doesn't work.
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,824
Thanks: 1
Registered: 27-10-2012

Re: Intruder Alert

Quote from: nanotm
Next time someone invades my house at two in the morning rather than reach for the machete and claw hammer in the tool kit next to the bed in your scenario I should ignore the intruders and let them enter occupied rooms so as not to become embroiled in a legal fracas later on?
You might be happy letting your wife and children get savaged or killed but I will be doing my utmost to decapitate anyone that steps foot on the stairs in such a situation, what's more the law in this country says I am perfectly entitled to do so, so long as I don't defile the corpse in some way.....

I strongly suggest you read http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/self_defence/ before you end up killing someone.
And this is the CPS - they know what they are advising...
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,274
Thanks: 339
Fixes: 12
Registered: 24-10-2013

Re: Intruder Alert

of course, nanotm being the troll he is, is just posting nonsense for affect.
Community Veteran
Posts: 5,322
Thanks: 467
Fixes: 1
Registered: 21-03-2011

Re: Intruder Alert

Chain them to a wall and force them to watch continual recording loops of the BBC One Show.
Now Zen, but a +Net residue.
Community Veteran
Posts: 13,925
Thanks: 515
Fixes: 8
Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: Intruder Alert

Quote from: chenks76
of course, nanotm being the troll he is, is just posting nonsense for affect.

You're the one constantly throwing troll accusations around and going gung-ho with the aggression.
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
nanotm
Pro
Posts: 5,674
Thanks: 109
Fixes: 1
Registered: 11-02-2013

Re: Intruder Alert

Quote from: AndyH
Quote from: nanotm
Next time someone invades my house at two in the morning rather than reach for the machete and claw hammer in the tool kit next to the bed in your scenario I should ignore the intruders and let them enter occupied rooms so as not to become embroiled in a legal fracas later on?
You might be happy letting your wife and children get savaged or killed but I will be doing my utmost to decapitate anyone that steps foot on the stairs in such a situation, what's more the law in this country says I am perfectly entitled to do so, so long as I don't defile the corpse in some way.....

I strongly suggest you read http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/self_defence/ before you end up killing someone.
And this is the CPS - they know what they are advising...

indeed they even advise that those of us not of whole bodies can utilise pre-emptive strike without fear or later prosecution so long as we can prove that action was necessary to protect life, a distinction easily reached by the intruder having attempted to assail the stairs to the occupied area of the property, of course for those with full use of their body there are slightly different rules unless they happen to be female in which case self defence can also be lethal pre-emptive strike, the distinction of proportionality comes after the intruder is down and no longer moving do you keep attacking ........
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you