cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

How times and standards have changed..

Community Veteran
Posts: 13,923
Thanks: 514
Fixes: 7
Registered: 01-08-2007

How times and standards have changed..

Many moons ago when I first got online ike many folks I developed an interest in web pages and how to make them.
I started out with geocities and their pagebuilder tool. It did great things that, was easy to use and really did a great job. Unfortunately it was all done online so you couldn't work offline with it which was a real pain. Anyway it was years ahead of its time with layers that could overlap etc.
Then I discovered that overlapping layers were heavily frowned upon by the html gangs all over the web. It was a sickening and disgusting practice. Convinced I was a terrible webbie I lost interest. Then got into other things...
Came back to html a few years later to find this css business had been added to the mix. It looked totally scary and I hadn't really got a clue what it was all about so avoided that like the plague for a few more years and concentrated on back end coding.
Now recently I've been forced to take another look at frond end design as an old project of mine needed a rehash in a couple of areas. So I dug out dreamweaver and started adjusting things. I had to get to grips with css for it too. I finally discovered that not only does css actually make life a fair bit easier but it also ENCOURAGES over lapping layers  Roll eyes  Angry  Cry  Crazy Yes thats right, all those css powered drop down menus are simply hidden div tags / layers that are over lapping other layers and divs, along with those fading in/out popup boxes etc. I am absolutely LIVID! Furious infact!
So all those years ago I was way ahead of the game and then a few morons decided it was bad practice and now it's widely accepted as good practice. Oh how times change..
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
18 REPLIES
kmilburn
Grafter
Posts: 902
Thanks: 2
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: How times and standards have changed..

It was probably considered bad practice at the time due to the highly variable support from different browsers.
With changes to CSS support (and Microsoft finally deciding to play ball), the environment is much better.
If you want to see what a well designed web page can do, just by changing to CSS used,  take a look at the CSS Zen Garden
WTF
Grafter
Posts: 673
Thanks: 1
Registered: 14-09-2012

Re: How times and standards have changed..

It's not just computing where what was once frowned upon later becomes standard practice: I failed a driving test because I did what was called a 'racing change', i.e. skipping direct from 4th to 2nd.  I'm now told that's what everyone is taught to do.
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 16,561
Thanks: 1,801
Fixes: 125
Registered: 06-04-2007

Re: How times and standards have changed..

Yes - I think that was covered a few months back in my thread about my wife's driving lessons.
When I first took her out in my car I was shocked when she attempted to change down from 4 to 2. It was drummed into me me back in the late '70s as something only to be done after passing the test.

Forum Moderator and Customer
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear - Mark Twain
He who feared he would not succeed sat still

Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 25,770
Thanks: 1,127
Fixes: 47
Registered: 14-04-2007

Re: How times and standards have changed..

I regularly go from 2nd to 4th or even 5th.
Customer and Forum Moderator.
Product of the Tyrell Corporation
Community Gaffer
Community Gaffer
Posts: 4,917
Thanks: 190
Fixes: 4
Registered: 04-04-2007

Re: How times and standards have changed..

If I remember rightly, <layer> was only ever supported by netscape anyway?
RichAllen
Grafter
Posts: 805
Registered: 14-09-2013

Re: How times and standards have changed..

Way back when I was on my first dial up Internet account (with Claranet) back in 1997, I had a very basic website hosted on their free web space about a Playstation fgame I used to play all the time (yes, Playstation, I was once a Sony fan)
I was teaching myself basic HTML at the time and wrote the site myself.
Community Veteran
Posts: 13,923
Thanks: 514
Fixes: 7
Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: How times and standards have changed..

Quote from: WTF
I failed a driving test because I did what was called a 'racing change', i.e. skipping direct from 4th to 2nd.  I'm now told that's what everyone is taught to do.

Yes i was taught to do that when entering a dual carriage way or motorway - hammer it to the floor in 3rd and then up into 5th skipping 4th.
@Kelly layers seemed to work in IE and netscape from memory but they might have been using divs for all i know - i didn't look at the source back then lol
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
Devonian
Grafter
Posts: 1,854
Registered: 01-05-2011

Re: How times and standards have changed..

I always skip gears in my van.
Unless I'm pointing up a steep hill, I pull away in second, then go to 3rd, 4th, then 6th.
Community Veteran
Posts: 26,377
Thanks: 632
Fixes: 8
Registered: 10-04-2007

Re: How times and standards have changed..

Skipping gears depends upon whether you want to drive economically - if you do you don't skip gears and also change gear far more frequently than most people do.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
WTF
Grafter
Posts: 673
Thanks: 1
Registered: 14-09-2012

Re: How times and standards have changed..

I find that keeping in higher gears helps a lot (at least in a diesel where you have the torque): if I change down to the gear the indicator claims I should be in, I see the mileage plummet.
Community Veteran
Posts: 26,377
Thanks: 632
Fixes: 8
Registered: 10-04-2007

Re: How times and standards have changed..

If coasting at a steady speed on the level, yes higher gear. I've found that if the revs are below 2000 and you have to push the accelerator to either speed up or go up a hill dropping a gear helps. Even driving around country roads in rolling countryside I can keep the mpg of my C-Max above 55mpg. On a long run I can get over 60mpg and once managed to get from the Suffolk coast north of Ipswich back to home (South West Wiltshire) at well over 70 mpg.
Quote from: jelv
change gear far more frequently than most people do.

That's the key - make sure you are always in the optimal gear for what you are asking the engine to do. Just because a diesel will accelerate from 30mph in 5th gear because it has the torque doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
beeceegee
Rising Star
Posts: 511
Thanks: 31
Fixes: 1
Registered: 27-11-2012

Re: How times and standards have changed..

Quote from: Mav
.... to change down from 4 to 2. It was drummed into me me back in the late '70s as something only to be done after passing the test.

By the early 80s when I passed my test the instructor commented on my 4 to 2 change; said very good but probably best not to do it in the test. I rarely change down via 3rd. Now an interesting one (if I forget what gear I am in) is to attempt 6th to 2nd  Embarrassed
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 25,770
Thanks: 1,127
Fixes: 47
Registered: 14-04-2007

Re: How times and standards have changed..

Going from 2nd to 4th on a reasonably flat road is one less press on the accelerator.
However I don't have a reliable and accurate method of assessing my MPG apart from when I fill up and even then I can't guarantee to fill up to exactly the same point every time.
My Megané had an onboard computer telling me my current MPG but I couldn't say how accurate it was.
What I do know is my petrol costs me £1.30 a litre and my milk costs me £0.58 a litre.
How can I run my car on milk?
Customer and Forum Moderator.
Product of the Tyrell Corporation
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,307
Thanks: 86
Fixes: 3
Registered: 08-01-2008

Re: How times and standards have changed..

Unfortunately strat, a quick calculation suggests the calorific value of milk (about 260kcal/litre - full fat) is a fraction of that of petrol (about 45Mj/kg)
So milk is about 1080 kJ/litre or 1.08Mj/litre and petrol is about 33Mj/litre (assuming a typical density of 0.74kg/l).
Calorie for calorie your petrol is better value (even with all the tax).
Regular gear changing to keep engine speed close to optimum is probably more efficient than skipping gears but will vary dependent on the vehicle (petrol vs diesel, turbo/non-turbo, close ratio/wide ratio 'box etc).
I wish all webpages and browsers simply worked to W3C standards (even if they do change/evolve), if you don't mind a bit of work and a great learning opportunity then visit http://www.htmldog.com/
Call me 'w23'
At any given moment in the universe many things happen. Coincidence is a matter of how close these events are in space, time and relationship.
Opinions expressed in forum posts are those of the poster, others may have different views.