Hither Green Burglary Death

[#1]

No need for a link to this as it's been in the press and on a number of TV news channels.

But the question for you is this, based on the information currently available to you and I accept most of it is biased in one direction, if you were on the jury would you find this chap guilty or innocent if he was charged with murder ?

[#2]

In my opinion, he's not guilty...

Why? Well, he was defending his home, his property, his life, from an individual who was only interested in depriving him of one (or more) of those things, the individual was there illegally, and had he not broken in, he would probably still be alive burgling other houses, so to me, a career criminal has been removed from society and is not wasting taxpayer's money by residing in a state funded hotel...

There was that case several years back about a farmer who shot a burglar in his home and that went on for a long time, and I find it sickening how there are judges and lawyers who favour the criminal when it comes to prosecution, bleating on about reform and "turning themselves around", it rarely works, as soon as they're out, they're back at it and returning to prison.

We should have the right to defend ourselves in any way we see fit when it comes to uninvited criminals entering our homes and properties so they can take our belongings to fund their lives, there is no sense of fear in them because they know they'll get away with it. I've a friend over in Texas who often reminds me of the "Make my day" law, where you have the legal right to shoot someone dead on your property if you believe they're up to no good, and it works, burglaries, and a lot of common crimes in general, are rare there because, funnily enough, the would-be criminals know that it could be their last day alive if they tried.

[#3]

Hither Green, not too far from me 

Yes I am with @twocvbloke on this one, if you confronted an intruder in your property then how do you know someone with those morals (or lack thereof) wouldn't do something to yourself?

If they know something bad is going to happen to them, then they'd be less burglays.

[#4]

@twocvbloke

must confess I am of the same opinion as yourself.

If he is charged with murder they are unlikely to find a jury that would find him guilty.

Likely they will charge him with manslaughter which might make it more difficult for them to return a not guilty verdict.

[#5]

It will be a disgrace if he is charged with anything.

This elderly man deserves a medal for bravery, not a day in court.

[#6]

@twocvbloke

Well said 

I would have no hesitation in acting in the same was as this fellow OAP did, and I fear for a time I am not around should my Mrs have to face some snot rag burglar like this.

[#7]

As far as i see it , the Burglar got what he deserved

I read there was a skuffle in the kitchen when he got stabbed with the screwdriver , Obviously the burglar wasnt expecting the old guy to have a go he thought he could scare him to get his cash .

Now if the old guy got stabbed it would be different outcome

[#8]

@rongtw

If the old guy had got stabbed we'd have a sob story from the burglars social worker.

[#9]

It's not the police who will decide what  the charge will be it's the Crown Prosecution Service and there must be a very high chance of success when the case goes before a jury.

There is a problem with a  murder charge as the incident happened inside the property it would be a different scenario if the burglar had left the property  and the householder has chased after him it could be then said he was no longer in danger.

I don't think/hope he will be charged

Brian A

[#10]

Be interesting to see the final outcome.

The Police had no choice but to arrest him as they are bound to follow certain proceedures in cases where death occurs.

He is now on bail but some people have been on bail for over a year before being told no further action is to be taken, the DPP need to make a decision quickly on the next step and not keep him hanging on.

Not sure what the minimum sentence is for manslaughter but if it's a non custodial one might that be the way they want to deal with it.

[#11]

The circumstances between the Hither Green and the farmer mentioned earlier are different:

The farmer WAS found guilty of murder by a jury (10 to 2 actually) as it was shown as pre-meditated, as he was laying in wait with a loaded shotgun and shot in cold blood without warning at the burglar(s) entering his property, the other was injured, and attempted to sue the farmer for GBH (this was thrown out). The verdict was later (correctly in my opinion) overturned to Manslaughter on appeal.

The Hither Green has no such pre-meditation element in his defence of his property and family. I will be surprised if the case actually goes to court. If it does the jury directed to find him not guilty. 

[#12]

The farmer incidentally is reported to have lived rough since his release, never returning to his farm, and faced continual harassment from the Police.

If that is true, Why?

[#13]

Hi gleneagles 

If he is charged with the offence of manslaughter it would be Involuntary Manslaughter that's where the offender did not intend to kill.

The sentence for IM is a prison sentence to be served immediately, suspended imprisonment or community service..

Given the circumstances if the case did go to court what would the chances of a jury finding him guilty.

I rest my case Your Honor

[#14]

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@Anonymous wrote:

If he is charged with the offence of manslaughter it would be Involuntary Manslaughter that's where the offender did not intend to kill.

---

Or if he is charged at all, perhaps it will be Accidental Killing.

Edit:  On further thought, I'm not sure if that applies under English law. 

[#15]

Or if he is charged at all, perhaps it will be Accidental Killing.

I don't think there is a charge of Accidental Killing that's a US term.

Moderator's note by Mike (Mav): Quote fixed.