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He cannot be serious

Minivanman
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He cannot be serious

We are trillions in debt, and it's going to take longer to get on an even keel after Covid than it ever did after the second world war... and now this?

He cannot be serious.

I'll be surprised if this fur coat and no knickers ship even gets made in the UK. Do other nations have what will be a flag flying luxury yacht sailing around the world. I don't think so.

Boris Johnson plans to sink £200m into new ship of state | UK news | The Guardian


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idonno
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Re: He cannot be serious

One could look at it from the other direction, what's £200m in the grand scheme of things? 🙂 It seems there have been Royal yachts since 1660. Be a shame to do away with tradition and all that stuff. It'll probably come with added extras that the military will find useful.

 

As to whether other nations have the same - Air Force One would be very similar even if it isn't a ship. And a fair number of nations (big and small) send their air force aerobatic teams all over the world. Its called flag waving and it all comes with a cost.  

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Minivanman
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Re: He cannot be serious

Fair point @idonno, but I'll be well impressed if it ever makes it to New Delhi, Paris, Berlin, Moscow or even Canberra! 


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Baldrick1
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Re: He cannot be serious

In my working days I visited international exhibitions in various parts of the world. At a couple Britannia was in dock. The hottest ticket in town for senior foreign potential buyers was an invitation to visit. 
If you are selling to the world in the face of International competition you might be surprised how much these props do to raise the credibility of the UK.

 

shutter
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Re: He cannot be serious

@Baldrick1  I agree..... Even a British Warship, in harbour.  will be the "hot ticket" for the "social invite" groups, as I can well testify.  Frigate.... Destroyer... and Aircraft Carrier...  All were  equally regarded as a "Place to be seen... and to do business"...

Not sure how it worked from "their" side of things...but ... certainly, we did put on the very very best of show for the visiting guests...

The ceremony of "Sunset" being a particular poignant event that was enjoyed immensley by the guests..... especially if there was a small Royal Marine Band playing the Sunset theme.

Minivanman
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Re: He cannot be serious

Well from the above comments I guess I'll just have to wait for the next workers revolution.

Forward with the Lumpenproletariat!  😀


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gleneagles
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Re: He cannot be serious

And it will provide work for thousands of workers who will…..

end up paying back to the government most of their wages in tax, NI contributions and all the indirect tax paid on vat, fuel etc.

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Minivanman
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Re: He cannot be serious

That's assuming it'll be made in the UK.

I'd not raise my hopes on that one as ships usually end up being built somewhere like South Korea, but we can but hope.


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7up
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Re: He cannot be serious

There was an economist on the telly the other day saying that 92% of the UK government debt is owed to the bank of england.

He made a very simple point after stating that.. With the debt being owed to the bank of england who aren't going to be sending anyone round to collect, why are we so worried about paying off the national debt as fast as possible?

 

He has a valid point. They're not going to send in the bailiffs and seize the house of commons so just WHY are the politicians always using this as an excuse to strip us of more tax money? Yes you can argue about inflation and printing off free money etc but all the time the debt is still on the books, it still provies a base value for our currency. The DWP tell people to go to citizens advice when they're struggling to survive on benefits, isn't it about time the government admitted that it needs to increase the repayment period of the national debt? - Yes it's very wrong to dump it on our future generations but then if we increase the repayment period to something like 200 years (and lets forget we've leassed Hong Kong for what.. 100 years?) then at least the repayments will be a lot lower and our future generations can actually have some standard of living to enjoy rather than a country that is crumbling.

Infact, if we're 2trillion in the red right now, i'd be in favour of increasing it to 6trillion and rebuilding our country if we can spread it over a couple of centuries and let our country flourish once more.

One thing is for sure, we can not carry on the way we are. It simply isn't working. We're being crippled by MPs who want to pay it off ASAP punishing us in the process, stripping our country bare and leaving nothing but misery for our children all while trying to preach to the world about how great we are while putting up immigrants in 4 star hotels while we leave our own people under bridges and in shop doorways.

This madness must be brought under control.

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Minivanman
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Re: He cannot be serious

Sort of get your point there @7up but wasn't that economist being a little bit disingenuous. 

The Bank may be owned by the government in which case it's still the country that owes money to what is both nationalised private concern (whatever that means) if I understand it right that.  Also, it's not just ourselves we own money to - don't we owe Iran more than a few million and no doubt plenty others as well.

Out of my depth here so I'll exit stage left, but interesting all the same.

We should just print more money, Simples. 😂


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Baldrick1
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Re: He cannot be serious

Is this so that we can have the value of our currency on the international market plummet, have very expensive imported food and other essential materials from abroad shoot up in price and other nations treating us like we are a banana republic? Exports might be cheaper on the international markets but only if we don't have to import materials to build said products.

I remember paying 15% interest on my mortgage and I didn't like it. It would be nice if interest rates on savings kept up with inflation with a bit extra, but increase our national debt to ridiculous levels, get real!

What we don't need is to borrow money for vanity projects like high speed train sets with no doubt prices that mere mortals will not be able to afford even if they happen to be one of the few that lives near a station. The last year has brought to the fore ways of avoiding people having to move around the country so much for business. Lets put the money and resources into FTTP instead and projects such as green energy that will reduce our import bill. Yes, things like tidal barriers would horrify the tree huggers but it wouldn't half save on the cost of imported energy.

gleneagles
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Re: He cannot be serious


@Minivanman wrote:

Sort of get your point there @7up but wasn't that economist being a little bit disingenuous. 

The Bank may be owned by the government in which case it's still the country that owes money to what is both nationalised private concern (whatever that means) if I understand it right that.  Also, it's not just ourselves we own money to - don't we owe Iran more than a few million and no doubt plenty others as well.

Out of my depth here so I'll exit stage left, but interesting all the same.

We should just print more money, Simples. 😂


And that is what Germany did prior to the War…..

A wheelbarrow fully of money might just have been enough to buy a loaf…..

1914 the rate for the German mark was 4.2 to 1 American dollar.

Nine years later…….German Mark was 4.2 trillion to 1 American Dollar.

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Jonpe
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Re: He cannot be serious

You may remember that we did print money, or engage in 'quantitative easing', after the banking crisis.  When the governor of the Bank of England was asked whether it had been tried before, he referenced "Germany in the 1920s and present day Zimbabwe".  That didn't exactly fill me with confidence.

Btw, have you noticed that Sterling has been steadily increasing in value against the US$ and the € recently?

shutter
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Re: He cannot be serious


@Jonpe wrote:

 

Btw, have you noticed that Sterling has been steadily increasing in value against the US$ and the € recently?


 

 

Probably because we are no longer tied to the purse strings of the EU....  Cool

 

Onwards, and Upwards  Smiley

7up
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Re: He cannot be serious


@Minivanman wrote:

Also, it's not just ourselves we own money to

We should just print more money, Simples. 😂


If we're borrowing it from ourselves then i'm happy to delay being repaid. It's still a debt so it's still worth something.

I don't think we should just print money off willy nilly but at the same time i don't think we should be so eager to get it paid off ASAP. The government are quite happy for people to pay for a house over 25 years knowing that many will die before they finished etc, why can't the government get realistic about repaying it's own debts?

@gleneagles wrote:

And that is what Germany did prior to the War…..

A wheelbarrow fully of money might just have been enough to buy a loaf…..

1914 the rate for the German mark was 4.2 to 1 American dollar.

Nine years later…….German Mark was 4.2 trillion to 1 American Dollar.

But we've just done it - some months ago - ourselves. The BoE created and stumped up £150bn and lent it to Boris. Don't forget we also did quantative easing previously too and that was before Theresa Maybe shook her non existent magic money tree. So, 3 times we've had to create and stump up money that didn't previously exist. Are we going to carry on doing this for centuries? - Because we're not going to get anything repaid anytime soon.

We're not talking about just creating money and having a spending spree, that money was created based on debt - which still "technically" has to be repaid but what i'm saying is we should extend that repayment period to something more manageable so we're not being crippled. We simply cannot carry on sacrificing our public services to the bone which is what MPs for years have insisted we do while telling us there is no magic money - which continues to flow in from the BoE.

The simple reality is this - they've sold off every public service that once generated money for the treasury. Now they rely soley on tax revenue - which isn't working terribly well as we're all seeing. The government needs to start selling access to public services again in order to get itself back "on track" rather than relying on one failing source of income.

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