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Has something got a bit wrong with our prisions?

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Has something got a bit wrong with our prisions?

I read this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/04/25/njail125.xml
Is the new ploy to give criminals such comfy life they don't want to go out and break the law?
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34 REPLIES
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Re: Has something got a bit wrong with our prisions?

Apparently the drug dealers break *into* Leeds Prison (AKA Armley Nick) to sell to the inmates.
Clearly a high-security place then if they can just put a ladder against the wall to get in.
Think 'a bit wrong' is an understatement.
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Re: Has something got a bit wrong with our prisions?

[me=Assos]finds it ironic everyone is now moaning the prisoners get it too easy and about people breaking in, when they are normally moaning about overcrowding and people breaking out.[/me]
but no, not good.
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Re: Has something got a bit wrong with our prisions?

Although overcrowding isn't good, we should at least treat prisoners with some civility if we expect them to behave in a more cilvised way when they come out, is there any justification for this level of comfort?
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Re: Has something got a bit wrong with our prisions?

I believe that prisons do have a difficult task.
They need to act as a punishment and deterrent, but they also need to rehabilitate offenders too. All whilst respecting their rights to be treated civilly and with a degree of respect.
Its not a balance I'd like to try and strike, and it is very easy for us to sit here and point out when they get it wrong.
Is there really a way to get prisons *right* or do we need to accept that they can't do everything, and clearly state which aims are the most important?
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Re: Has something got a bit wrong with our prisions?

I'll refrain from giving my full thoughts, as this is a family forum.  However....
Prison is, and should be, a 'punishment'.  I fully believe in locking up the prisoners in solitary for 23 hours a day, and feeding them basic sustenance.
No TV, no internet, no games consoles.  No 'wages', and no drugs.  It's a prison, not a holiday camp.  Perhaps this would 'rehabilitate' offenders better, because they won't want to go back!
B.
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Re: Has something got a bit wrong with our prisions?

Might well be a deterrent too, which might solve the over-crowding problem.
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Re: Has something got a bit wrong with our prisions?

If prisoners are paid wages for work done in prison, is there money taken off them towards food and  lodgings?
Surely there must be a two way deal:  get paid for work - pay for your keep.
John
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Re: Has something got a bit wrong with our prisions?

Just waiting until this turns into a flogging and hanging debate  Sad
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Re: Has something got a bit wrong with our prisions?

No debate - Yes to both Wink
OK, so that was tongue in cheek, but you can punish people without turning to corporal and or capital punishment.
Bob_Milton
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Re: Has something got a bit wrong with our prisions?

Oldjim,
When you say,
Quote
Just waiting until this turns into a flogging and hanging debate 


it seems to me that with one or two comments already made it has.
The problem may be that most people are unaware of the laws which govern sending people to prison, and their subsequent treatment in prison.

Javert
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Re: Has something got a bit wrong with our prisions?

glyndev
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Re: Has something got a bit wrong with our prisions?

Quote from: James_H
I believe that prisons do have a difficult task.
They need to act as a punishment and deterrent, but they also need to rehabilitate offenders too. All whilst respecting their rights to be treated civilly and with a degree of respect.

[rant]
I agree wholeheartedly with this with a couple of exceptions.
Murderers : Life should mean life, 24 Hrs solitary, NO rights, No visits, No entertainment (Tv, music etc), No contact other than warders (and no conversation there either). In other words total loss of all human rights other than life, after all they have deprived the victim of their human rights, especially the right to life.
Paedophiles / sex offenders : Life sentence, again life should mean life. 24 Hrs solitary, NO entertainment, non contact visits (i.e. screens like in US).
I don't agree with the death penalty, never have. So many miscarriages of justice in the past have convinced me of that.
[/rant]
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Re: Has something got a bit wrong with our prisions?

Quote from: Devonports
I don't agree with the death penalty, never have. So many miscarriages of justice in the past have convinced me of that.

I don't know why it is but when I read discussions like this where phrases such as the one in the quote appear, I can't help thinking 'collateral damage'.
It's a freely accepted situation in war time with far greater numbers of individuals involved.
There will always be a price to pay for a stable, democratic society.
Those that attempt to destabilise it should pay and dearly.
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Re: Has something got a bit wrong with our prisions?

Quote from: Devonports
Murderers : Life should mean life, 24 Hrs solitary, NO rights, No visits, No entertainment (Tv, music etc), No contact other than warders (and no conversation there either). In other words total loss of all human rights other than life, after all they have deprived the victim of their human rights, especially the right to life.
Paedophiles / sex offenders : Life sentence, again life should mean life. 24 Hrs solitary, NO entertainment, non contact visits (i.e. screens like in US).

When I see statements like that my first thought is - define murder and paedophile/sex offence
Take a few examples -
A person is convicted as a paedophile because he/she has images on his computer - no other reason. For that you would sentence them to life in prison
A man is convicted of kerb crawling (this is a sex offence) - life in prison
A loving husband/wife is convicted of murder because they assist their partner with a terminal illness to die - life in prison.
A burglar breaks into your house and threatens you  - you respond by defending yourself with a knife and kill him - you are prosecuted and found guilty of murder because you used disproportionate force - life in prison
A wife kills her husband after a history of domestic violence but it is premeditated as it wasn't during an assault - murder - life in prison
For your statement to stand up you need to define grades of murder/paedophile/sex offence with a range of appropriate sentences