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HS2

Community Veteran
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HS2

Millions has already been spent on this project and it's not even got underway yet, assuming it ever does.

Would it have made more sense to build 2 or 3 small private airports for internal flights only with a short train link to the major airports, would this not be far less expensive ?

I understand the current cost of some train journeys is more that if you chose to fly.

These small airports would also take some pressure off the large airports currently providing internal flights.

Do you think the idea is feasible ?

please respond asap as TM is awaiting a response from me.

 

Wink

21 REPLIES
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Re: HS2

Problem with "small airports"... you need to have one in ( near ) major cities.. and most cities consider themselves " major " in their particular area of the country>..

If you think forward from your idea... you need transport TO & From the airports, on the ground to the cities, they serve.  ( more cost in building short rail/tram links to town centres..

 

You need to have some really good Air Traffic Control,   ( by that I mean, some co-ordination for flight times and air space control  to ensure that there is sufficient "air safety" in  flight levels, and separation vertically and horizontally )  for all those flight that will be transiting, and then you will need to have more capacity at the major airports ( even third or fourth ) ( small plane runways)  and then associated  buildings for processing the "local" flights passengers, ..  whilst maintaining the international routes which are already almost at maximum for Heathrow and Gatwick.

 

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Re: HS2

There was news recently about increasing efficiency on railways by simply having more trains on them.

Decreasing the gaps between trains.

I was listening to this news while waiting in a queue of traffic at some busy train gates.

Seems to me that if railway efficiency was increased this way the train gates would never open.

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Re: HS2

@billnotben When I lived in Suffolk, we used to go out for a drive in the local area, and when we came upon a "level" crossing, the gates were nearly always open, and were automatically controlled by the approaching train(s).. so they closed for only a short while , whilst the train was passing that section. then opened immediately the train had passed... however.. a lot of level crossings on the southern lines are closed for anything up to 10 or 15 mins because two trains need to pass... seems a bit weird to me

 

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Re: HS2

@shutter,

Well thoughout answer, I wonder if anyone has considered/ costed such an idea ?

The airports could be privately funded thus reducing the cost to the tax payer.

A number of private small airports already exist so I assume they must link with traffic control, there will also be military aircraft, private helicopters etc who link in to existing air traffic control so would it cost that much more ?

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Re: HS2

I am not an expert on ATC.. but from what I have learned over the years.. it seems, that there is two levels of Air Traffic Control, 

 

Local and National....  Local is for "light aircraft" .. those two, three and four  seater planes, privately owned, and some run by flying schools to teach flying to would be pilots,..  and National for the "big boys"  i.e private jets and larger long distance flights, including inter city and international..

 

Light aircraft. generally fly on  VFR.. Visual Flight Rules.. and this means the pilot only has very limited radar assistance during his flight, and he must keep a good lookout all around for other aircraft.. ( There are higher levels of radar assistance... but I think that the pilot must apply on his flight plan for this service, and he will get charged for it at some point in the future, if he has not already been charged prior to his flight).. . these flights usually remain below 5,000 feet... There are restricted flight areas within the boundaries of major airports, where stacking and approach and take off paths come below the 5,000 feet level, Any "light aircraft" who "strays" into these restricted areas is severely reprimanded.

As a "light aircraft "  transits the country, on his route, he will have certain "waypoints" where he must contact the local radar service, and he will be "passed on" to the next waypoint by the ATC officers controlling that area..  ( independently of the NATS operated from near Southampton).

 

 

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Re: HS2


shutter wrote:

closed for anything up to 10 or 15 mins because two trains need to pass..


One local set of gates has four tracks. When the gates close everyone turns their engines off and gets the newspapers out.

rongtw
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Re: HS2

I dont think HS2 is a good idea ,,,,, its just another pie in the sky .

Better of just spending money on present tracks

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Re: HS2


gleneagles wrote:

Millions has already been spent on this project and it's not even got underway yet, assuming it ever does.

Would it have made more sense to build 2 or 3 small private airports for internal flights only with a short train link to the major airports, would this not be far less expensive ?

I understand the current cost of some train journeys is more that if you chose to fly.

These small airports would also take some pressure off the large airports currently providing internal flights.

Do you think the idea is feasible ?

please respond asap as TM is awaiting a response from me.

 

Wink


Trouble is glenn the UKs airspace is the busiest in the world. The CAA struggled to find space for the vulcan to fly around.

 

As for the trains, yes network rail a while back admitted they'd taken to flying their own staff around the country because it was cheaper than sending them by train.

 

As for HS2... I personally think it's just another way of the rich looking out for themselves. The whole country is still recovering from Axe o Beeching where 2/3 of the rail network was closed. We need more rail routes in general but apparently only the cities matter enough to warrant new trackbeds, embankments, tunnels etc that will cost £mega to build.

I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
Mayfly
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Re: HS2

I fear for the Eastern Line when HS2 opens, I can imagine most companies would route via the faster line if time tabling allows, thereby reducing the East coast service.

Luzern
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Re: HS2


billnotben wrote:

shutter wrote:

closed for anything up to 10 or 15 mins because two trains need to pass..


One local set of gates has four tracks. When the gates close everyone turns their engines off and gets the newspapers out.


And it can be surprising how far back the signal prior to the crossing may be to prevent over runs, both for crossings and other places where "things happen on the system.

Another problem with crossings is those who haven't the patience to wait. An example is the crossing in Poole, Dorset, High Street with a continuously heavy footfall. I believe there have been some near misses.

TBH it seems perverse that funds can be found for relatively short reduction in time over long distances, while much of infrastructure belongs to two centuries ago.

No one has to agree with my opinion, but in the time I have left a miracle would be nice.
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Re: HS2

Another benefit of Brexit! 

I've just been made aware of this HS2 is an EU project see the attached map which shows the route Ticked off

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/infrastructure/tentec/tentec-portal/site/maps_upload/tent_modes/EU_A0L...

Now we have voted for Brexit we can cancel it

Google Trans European Transport Network tentec

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Re: HS2

And if we did manage to cancel it,.... would the EU be paying back to the UK all the costs already incurred  ?

Community Veteran
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Re: HS2

No probably not but we could build something we want rather than something thought up in a committee room in Brussels. Longer platforms and longer trains on existing intercity lines for instance!
To do is to be - Neitzsche
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do be do be do - Sinatra
Community Veteran
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Re: HS2

Yup !   Longer trains, and longer platforms.... however.... longer waiting time is much cheaper... Cry