cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Guns

Community Veteran
Posts: 9,953
Thanks: 1,789
Fixes: 11
Registered: ‎02-08-2007

Guns

Did anyone watch Panorama on BBC 1 last night 8.30 pm ?

It demonstrated how easy it was to acquire guns legally, classed as antique it was assumed it would not be possible to get ammunition for them but it appears fairlyeasy to make the ammunition if you know where to look.

A Reporter went to America and purchased such a gun, declared it at customs and got through no problem, seems there are instructions on the internet describing the proceedure.

Even easier was to go to a antique gun fair and purchase a gun, no firearms certificate needed and all quite legal, pay cash and there is no paper trail.

What I cannot understand is that with all the fatal shooting over the years no one has asked where are these guns coming from the police must have confiscated hundreds over many years surely someone somewhere must have wondered about this ?

If action had been taken years ago a number of people may still have been alive today.

Even now it may take some time for the government to pass a bill to tighten up this loophole.

 

24 REPLIES 24
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,452
Thanks: 2,371
Fixes: 30
Registered: ‎06-11-2007

Re: Guns

As you rightly say,  it seems to be fairly easy to obtain a gun/firearm "legally"... Collectors of ancient firearms will no doubt be on the same "bandwagon" as those in the USA who seem to abide by the constituion of a "right to bear arms"...  and , of course, all those associated with the manufacture and retailing of such items. .  However, many of the guns used in these modern day shootings, here in the UK, are most likely, "illegal" in how they were obtained, or modified, and as such, are not easily traceable, or tracked down, until such crime has been comitted... by then, of course, it`s too late for the victim.

There will always be a "black market", for such weapons, and with the yearly decrease in the "police budgets" and the consequent depletion of the number of police,...uniformed and plain clothes, detection and prevention will come a long way down the list of "things to do"...

The government, whilst giving out their platitudes about these crimes, should really be taking responsibility for their actions on police reductions, and it`s consequences. At the present time... not only are the "shooters" guilty,  but also the government is too.

nanotm
Pro
Posts: 5,756
Thanks: 156
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎11-02-2013

Re: Guns

guns often arrive in this country on small boats, sometimes in container loads from overseas, and none of them do so legally, gun running has long been a thing for the gangs, hell you dont even have to "smuggle" them in, just charter a private flight  on a small plane from your chosen EU nation and fly it to some quiet place here in the mainland, you wont even have a customs official unless you go to one of hte larger private airfields, some folks bring in huge quantities of illegal goods or sex slaves this way, much safer for the criminal enterprise than chancing a regular boarder crossing....

the only thing so called gun safety laws do is make it harder for the law abiding citizens to defend themselves against criminals, but thats the whole point of ensuring we cant have arms or armour, its the exact same policy the criminal fraternity has bene using to disenfranchise the people for centuries, be it the ruling lordling not wishing for a hostile takeover or the modern crime syndicate not willing to loose its foot soldiers to newcomers... they all have one thing in common security through being the only one armed!

just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,634
Thanks: 1,416
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎23-09-2010

Re: Guns

And what will happen if 3D printers ever become cheap and commonplace?

Out of curiosity I downloaded a 3D gun file a couple of years ago so these things are freely available,

 

 

nanotm
Pro
Posts: 5,756
Thanks: 156
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎11-02-2013

Re: Guns

a lot of Darwin award recipients ? 

 

seriously if 3d printers become "cheap" enough for the average person to own something capable of producing a workable weapon that doesn't prove more lethal to the shooter and anyone in the vicinity of them than the person its "aimed" at maybe i'll start worrying about it....but probably not since it will never happen

 

if I wanted a gun I would pop along to the local library check out some books grab some stuff from the local hardware store and make it, far more reliable far more dangerous to the people your pointing at (even if still totally inaccurate) and without the added problems of exploding in your hand...

the media and Hollywood like to make out that a plastic gun will be the death of mankind but ive seen plenty of them test fired and not one of them has ever passed the dont kill the user test....

 

could someone with a million dollar 3d printer and 30k in materials make a gun through 3d printing, sure but that same person could have just bought a licence and dozens of guns for far less money (even in the UK if you have enough cash to grease the wheels you can get a permit to concealed carry legally) 

 

but hey of worrying about some fantasy is your ball park who am I to deny your right to do so?

 

 

 

 

 

just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,634
Thanks: 1,416
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎23-09-2010

Re: Guns


@nanotm wrote:
seriously if 3d printers become "cheap" enough for the average person to own something capable of producing a workable weapon that doesn't prove more lethal to the shooter and anyone in the vicinity of them than the person its "aimed" at maybe i'll start worrying about it....but probably not since it will never happen

That is so true currently but..........

My first printer, a second hand dot matrix £60, was a marvel. Inkjets then were a futuristic dream let alone cheap high quality inkjets.

I saw the TV program, as you probably did, a few years ago and of course I agree that no sensible person would pull the trigger on one of those (then) printer guns without a 100 foot of string doing the pulling.

Community Veteran
Posts: 9,953
Thanks: 1,789
Fixes: 11
Registered: ‎02-08-2007

Re: Guns

@nanotm

I guess you are thinking about modern guns when you describe how they might come into the country but the point of this program was to show how you could get a gun(s) into the country legally or if you could not be bothered to go abroad then go to a antique fair in this country and buy one.

Assume you have this gun in your glove compartment of your car, the police stop you for some reason and the gun is found in your car.......they cannot charge you with anything unless they can prove you were going to use that gun for illegal purposes so if you have no criminal record it is unlikely you would be charged.

I accept if they found ammunition that might be a different matter.

The point is you can legally own a antique gun that can be fired.

If you are caught with a modern weapon then you face a long prison sentence so it makes sense for criminals to use these antique weapons.

nanotm
Pro
Posts: 5,756
Thanks: 156
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎11-02-2013

Re: Guns

sure but what your talking about is a multi material printer thats cheap enough that everyone and their dog can buy it and can easily source the necessary powders and so on in order to print a gun, if that becomes the case those same people will be able ot print out clothing thats bullet proof (and I would be doing that before I bothered with the guns) it would also be likely pointless to make them since the clothing was "bullet proof" never mind that by then chances are very good most folks will have moved on to non lethal weapons along the lines of tazers and openly carry them around or las pistols for the lethal option never mind that by such a point in time thinking will have moved on to bigger and better things as we would be spacefaring as a species and so it would all be moot

the tech could be a lot cheaper and in a few generations once its improved enough its highly likely that every home will have some kind of 3d printer just as cheaply as the inkjets are today or the daisy wheels were in our youth, but the question is why borrow trouble from the future? 

more point in worrying about what the local land mammals with the oversized cutlery fetish will do than that though 

 

 

 

just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
nanotm
Pro
Posts: 5,756
Thanks: 156
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎11-02-2013

Re: Guns


@gleneagles wrote:

@nanotm

I guess you are thinking about modern guns when you describe how they might come into the country but the point of this program was to show how you could get a gun(s) into the country legally or if you could not be bothered to go abroad then go to a antique fair in this country and buy one.

Assume you have this gun in your glove compartment of your car, the police stop you for some reason and the gun is found in your car.......they cannot charge you with anything unless they can prove you were going to use that gun for illegal purposes so if you have no criminal record it is unlikely you would be charged.

I accept if they found ammunition that might be a different matter.

The point is you can legally own a antique gun that can be fired.

If you are caught with a modern weapon then you face a long prison sentence so it makes sense for criminals to use these antique weapons.


the law on that changed, you can legally buy a working version of the gun however you are required to maintain it in proper conditions which are listed as approved display cases or approved lock boxes, weapons for things like larping are not permitted without special licences (our local club has long has a couple of people listed on this certifications since the rules have been around for over 20 years) et caught wiht a working weapon outside of those conditions in the last 12 months and your going to get pinched.... thank the great EU for closing such loopholes Tongue

just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Guns

Occasionally, a couple of locally based Police Firearms Officers pop into our favourite restaurant, for a take-away.

Plus one who aways stays in their 4x4.

I know one of them quite well.

 

They look impressive, you wouldn't want to mess with them.

They give off an air of sheer professionalism.

 

 

Jonpe
Aspiring Hero
Posts: 2,892
Thanks: 1,050
Fixes: 9
Registered: ‎05-09-2016

Re: Guns

According to the ITV London news tonight, knife and gun violence should be treated as an illness!  Therefore it isn't the violent person's fault now is it?  I'm sure some academic will come up with a name for it, some kind of syndrome I suppose.

nanotm
Pro
Posts: 5,756
Thanks: 156
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎11-02-2013

Re: Guns

we already have a name for it its called selfish [-Censored-] syndrome...

and it tends to be endemic with bangers and those lacking education, those devoid of critical thinking and bound with tunnel vision...

even those who undertake violence on behalf of their peers either as some misguided act of vengeance, retribution, protection or expansion of "business" dont understand the wider implications of such things ...

 

and that includes the millions belonging to various cults who tend to be subjectively stupid as it suits their own devious and perverse natures...

 

but then nothing is so strange as the duality of man/

Moderator's note by Mike (Mav): Avoidance of swear filter edited as per Forum rules.

 

 

just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
Community Veteran
Posts: 14,850
Thanks: 963
Fixes: 12
Registered: ‎01-08-2007

Re: Guns

I can't believe the BBC aired a show like that when the media keeps calling this the new wild west crime wise. Police budgets being slashed all over the place, crime gradually creeping up and now the state owned TV corp is telling the public how to legally buy a gun and then source ammo for it?

 

Have they forgotten about the school shootings we had?

Utter madness.

I expect there is a sinister plot going on somewhere involving GCHQ and MI5/6 monitoring internet orders for guns so they can silently work out who is connected to who and monitor peoples activities etc with less police resources. Even if they are, i still don't like the idea of anyone being armed with this knowledge thanks to the beeb.

I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
Community Veteran
Posts: 9,953
Thanks: 1,789
Fixes: 11
Registered: ‎02-08-2007

Re: Guns


@nanotm wrote:

we already have a name for it its called selfish [-Censored-] syndrome...

and it tends to be endemic with bangers and those lacking education, those devoid of critical thinking and bound with tunnel vision...

even those who undertake violence on behalf of their peers either as some misguided act of vengeance, retribution, protection or expansion of "business" dont understand the wider implications of such things ...

 

and that includes the millions belonging to various cults who tend to be subjectively stupid as it suits their own devious and perverse natures...

 

but then nothing is so strange as the duality of man/

Moderator's note by Mike (Mav): Avoidance of swear filter edited as per Forum rules.

 

 


Whilst not disputing the points you make the issue is very complex in many cases.

Imagine a young person growing up in some areas of this country where drugs and gangs are rife, are they really going to tell some gang they will not join or carry out some illegal task they are told to do ?

Easy for people like us to say we would not do it but equally I suspect no one on the forum was brought up under those circumstances.

As for cults and sects, I guess most people want to believe in something so join like minded groups who make them welcome, there is a basic human instinct to feel needed.

It is also hard for many to accept the fact that once you die that's the end despite all the evidence available this is the case or put another way not one single piece of evidence that you continue to exist after death, the only group trying to provide such evidence through spiritualism have been shown to be bogus.

Community Veteran
Posts: 9,953
Thanks: 1,789
Fixes: 11
Registered: ‎02-08-2007

Re: Guns


@Anonymous wrote:

Occasionally, a couple of locally based Police Firearms Officers pop into our favourite restaurant, for a take-away.

Plus one who aways stays in their 4x4.

I know one of them quite well.

 

They look impressive, you wouldn't want to mess with them.

They give off an air of sheer professionalism.

 

 


I am sure that's true but criminals do not buy guns to shoot at the police, they buy guns to shoot other criminals and sadly innocent people can also end up being victims.