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Good Deal or no Deal

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Re: Good Deal or no Deal


@arjay wrote:

I think in a previous posting it was said they received such a low offer after negotiating, that if it was any lower they would have to pay him, that about sums it up


That poster was me, @arjay , and it was not after negotiating, it was a straight acceptance of an offer on my Account landing page.

John
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Re: Good Deal or no Deal

@gleneagles @shutter 

Thanks for enlightening me.

I was thinking along the lines of

Customer: My contract is due to expire and I would like to renegotiate, however I have difficulty hearing using the telephone.

Forum Agent: No problem. I have raised Question 1234567890 on your account and assigned it to the COT. If you respond to the question someone will pick it up in due course

OK, tell me I'm in cloud cuckoo land, but if anyone from Plusnet sees this maybe it would generate some more thought?

Come to think of it, I believe that a few years ago I may well have renegotiated my contract via the ticket system some time in the past ( further back than I can currently access on my Closed Questions)

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Re: Good Deal or no Deal


@jab1 wrote:

@arjay wrote:

I think in a previous posting it was said they received such a low offer after negotiating, that if it was any lower they would have to pay him, that about sums it up


That poster was me, @arjay , and it was not after negotiating, it was a straight acceptance of an offer on my Account landing page.


Yes I was mistaken. What is the Acccount landing page

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Re: Good Deal or no Deal

@arjay 'Account landing page' - the first page that opens when you log into your account?

John
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Re: Good Deal or no Deal

I don't normally contribute to general chat as it's often full of strange conversations about radio frequencies, politics and some ramblings about bygone era's that makes me miss my grandad Cheesy 

But this is definitely service related so give me a few minute's and I'll try to respond to everything raised here as openly and as honestly as I can. 

Finally @shutter we literally spoke yesterday about tagging people in these boards, tagging staff doesn't work. Don't tag anyone other than me and expect a response. The team do not log into the forums in the same way that you do.

 Jono H
 Plusnet Community Manager
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Re: Good Deal or no Deal

@JonoH 

Liked your summing up of the General Chat board. Made me chuckle, unfortunately I had just taken in a mouthful of tea. If you don't hear from me again soon its because I'm cleaning up.

I would challenge anyone to come up with a better summary ( I've a feeling I'm going to regret this), preferably in a new topic

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Re: Good Deal or no Deal

@JonoH  As you have "picked up" on my "gaff".Embarrassed .. perhaps you will pass on all of the thread, ( and other threads )  that is relevant to PlusNet, regarding their active discrimination against disabled customers.

 

As for not looking at General Chat... You don`t know what you are missing..Roll_eyes . it can be quite entertaining, and ... of course..educational, on various matters in real life... and also  as to how customers feel about things, which are not necessarily menitoned in Plusnet Feedback. Smiley

 

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Re: Good Deal or no Deal


@arjay wrote:

@gleneagles wrote:

They are hardly going to offer me a better deal via this forum for obvious reasons, or perhaps I have misunderstood something in your last post....keeping in mind the telephone is not a option.


From past experience and it seems from others that it all depende on the person you’re negotiating with and what sort of day they’ve had

A bit like a fruit cake when the currants have been thrown in from the other side of the room, do you get a bit with fruit in or not. Hardly an acceptable or fair system.

I think in a previous posting it was said they received such a low offer after negotiating, that if it was any lower they would have to pay him, that about sums it up


Agreed.....

Imagine this hypothetical situation at a company called IPS for all .com

Bloggs and smith deal with new and existing customers......

Everything is monitored....Bloggs total for new and renewal of contracts is 200 a week.

Smith has 120 for the week.....

Who is the one the company wants to keep but they can't sack Bloggs.....it's more training that's needed to get him up to speed, no lengthy chats with customers, if you detect they are not really interested waste no more of your time, tell em that's the best deal on offer, take it or leave it.

Smith then has a choice even though it's not in his nature, either copy the method Bloggs uses and after a period of time end up going off with stress related illness or telling them to stick the job.

Either way not good news for Smith as he has a family to support and mortgage to pay.

All hypothetical of course.

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Re: Good Deal or no Deal


@jab1 wrote:

@arjay 'Account landing page' - the first page that opens when you log into your account?


Thanks jab1 that proved very useful, wish I had know about it before, I have opened it before but didn't aquaint myself with everything on there 

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Re: Good Deal or no Deal


@arjay wrote:

Why are loyal customers expected to pay more to subsidise new customers?

I totally understand your point, the problem we have now is that the market place for broadband is so competitive that new customer offers are often loss-leading, enticing the customer to try your brand, if they like it they'll stay (or if they simply don't bother to change they'll also stay). Ofcom reported that just 9% of customers switched in 2019 flipping that on its head 81% did not switch and stayed where they were. Those that do switch often use customer comparison websites to help them find the best deal and it displays the results in order of price, cheapest first. Not being at or near the top of that list is extremely damaging for your new sales volumes. Some customers will always leave, die or move away and so it's important to attract new ones, even if you don't want to grow your market share. Put simply, we need new customers to choose us just to tread water.

 

Whilst ever our competitors use this model of heavily subsidising new customers to the point that they're more than likely unprofitable for the duration of their initial contract we have little choice but to do similarly.

 


@shutter wrote:

How on earth do they manage to avoid the advertising standards, and get away with it ?


If you feel we've broken our ASA obligations please feel free to report us here

 

And I would be able to use the ticket system... or even LIVE CHAT... to negotiate.... because I am almost DEAF . Live chat is not available to me...

I cannot hear properly , so the phone is not an option...

the other option  NGT does not install on Linux from the linky provided.

. and Plusnet Customer Service do not care

or offer support to hearing disabled customers to get  NGT... installed or working properly...


We no longer offer live chat as an option, it's not discriminatory, there's no obligation for us to offer it, it's been removed for everyone. Again if you genuinely believe you're being discriminated against here is how to complain with Ofcom as we've repeatedly told you we will not be turning it back on in the near future. 

 

Regarding us not being able to assist you with Text relay, I do wish you'd report this to other users more clearly. You use an operating system installed on less than 0.63% of all devices in the UK over the last 12 months. getting support directly from the owners of the software, who have access to all the diagnostic tooling and version history as well as being the subject matter expert completely makes sense to me. I cannot see how you can expect us to offer any kind of support for software that's not ours especially on an operating system rarer than rocking horse droppings Tongue 

 

@gleneagles  wrote:                                                                                                                                                        PN are only offering the option of getting a better deal by phone they they are guilty of discriminating against thousands of people, mostly elderly by only offering this method of contact regarding getting a better deal.

We're not, we offer text relay conversations inline with industry best practice and regulations. If you'd like assistance in how to access these I'd genuinely love to help you. 

@gleneagles wrote:

And where do the super users group come into this, never seen any feedback from them....

They'd love us to turn chat back on, they've raised that they don't like better deals for new customers, hell I don't like better deals for new customers we've had meetings with the head of marketing  and teh head of aqusition about them but despite what they, and indeed I think, we need to make decisions based on commercial reasoning, not thoughts and feelings.  As I've demonstrated above 81% of people don't switch at the end of their offer, the operating model is commercially sound.

 

@arjay  wrote: From past experience and it seems from others that it all depende on the person you’re negotiating with and what sort of day they’ve had

The agents have a matrix they can use to negotiate new offers, it changes very frequently depending on what our competitors are doing, the market changes almost daily.


@shutter wrote:

As you have "picked up" on my "gaff".Embarrassed .. perhaps you will pass on all of the thread, ( and other threads )  that is relevant to PlusNet, regarding their active discrimination against disabled customers.


I'm not sure what you're trying to say here but I don't believe there is any active discrimination regarding disabled customers.  if it's about the tagging @Gandalf  it's because I don't want you to waste your time, or expect an answer when the tags are invisible to them.

 

As for not looking at General Chat... You don`t know what you are missing..Roll_eyes . it can be quite entertaining, and ... of course..educational, on various matters in real life... and also  as to how customers feel about things, which are not necessarily menitoned in Plusnet Feedback.

I didn't say I didn't look, I don't 'contribute' 

 Jono H
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Re: Good Deal or no Deal

@JonoH  said....

Regarding us not being able to assist you with Text relay, I do wish you'd report this to other users more clearly. You use an operating system installed on less than 0.63% of all devices in the UK over the last 12 months.

 

I dispute your 0.63%  ( although I have checked the link ! ) ... checking on my blogsite stats.. for the past 7 days views,..   I get the figure of 4% for Linux systems.  Which goes to show, that you can manipulate or use any "stats" to show what you want to show... not necessarily the true picture of what is going on...

 

 

Pageviews by Operating Systems

Entry Pageviews

Windows

 

525 (66%)

Macintosh

 

77 (9%)

Unix

 

73 (9%)

Android

 

44 (5%)

Linux

 

38 (4%)

 

Your remark... 

I cannot see how you can expect us to offer any kind of support for software that's not ours especially on an operating system rarer than rocking horse droppings Tongue 

 

     If you cannot offer any kind of support for software that you direct disabled customers to use... then why do you direct them to use it.

 

 

Regardless, of which operating system I use...( as a percentage of all devices in the UK over the last 12 months)

 

I... am YOUR CUSTOMER..... I pay YOU ( aka  Plusnet) . for my service... It is the suppliers responsibility to address the issue that I have. through customer service.. ..exactly the same as if you were a retail business ( which you are )

 

If there is something wrong with the service , then the customer service department is the place that a customer ( ME) should turn to for help in sorting it out, and getting the service he ( me ) is paying for.

 

 

Your "help " section directs me to use the NGT system... and from that moment on, you wash your hands of any further responsibility regarding help for disabled customers who have a minority place in the operating systems world.

 

just because I am such a "small minority," as far as you are concerned, does not absolve you from the responsiblity.

 

 

However,..... in a reply to gleneagles... you say...

If you'd like assistance in how to access these I'd genuinely love to help you. 

 

You are assuming that he is running Windows... ? ? ? 

therefore your assistance offer will be discriminating because he uses a "majority of users" operating system... and it will , therefore be much easier for you to assist.

 

and so,.... a bit more "discrimination"  ? ? ?

.                                                         or double standards, maybe? ? ?

 

***************************************************************************************************************************

 

@JonoH 

We no longer offer live chat as an option, it's not discriminatory, there's no obligation for us to offer it, it's been removed for everyone. Again if you genuinely believe you're being discriminated against here is how to complain with Ofcom as we've repeatedly told you we will not be turning it back on in the near future. 

 

I know you don`t offer live chat.... that is not the "discrimination"...

 

You are using the fact that Live Chat, has been removed for everyone,

which... I agree with you.. is NOT discrimination...

 

 

The discrimination happens in the different ways that "normal"  and "disabled" hearing/speech impaired customers access Customer services, and the alternative system that you direct them to.

 

As described elsewhere.. "normal" customers deal DIRECT with the customer service person

 

DIsabled customers HAVE to deal with an "interpreter"... in both directions of the conversation with customer service person.

This increases the time spent dealing with the customer service, and also can lead to mistakes due to the "translation" between the three people involved. Mistakes, thus made, will not be the fault of PlusNet.. and so accountability will not be an issue for Plusnet.

 

THAT... is discrimination.

 

In fact,... because you do not want to, or  cannot see, or understand the way discrimination is taking place... is , in itself, a form of discrimination.

 

***************************************************************************************************************************

 

@shutter wrote:

As you have "picked up" on my "gaff".Embarrassed .. perhaps you will pass on all of the thread, ( and other threads )  that is relevant to PlusNet, regarding their active discrimination against disabled customers.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here but I don't believe there is any active discrimination regarding disabled customers. 

 

"the gaff" was using the tag for Gandalf....  

te message was asking you to pass on the contents of the thread(s)  ....

and the more you respond.. it is becoming obvious, that you do not understand, either the disabilities outlined, nor how those disabilities affect the people in their everyday lives, not just when trying to contact Plusnet... and therefore you make the statement  

 

I don't believe there is any active discrimination regarding disabled customers. 

 

It`s exactly the same as when a disabled person, with a disabled badge parks correctly, and then someone ( like you) sticks a rude message on their windscreen, saying that "normal " people should not park in disabled bays... because that person happened to have an "unseen" disability. ..

 

"I did not see him walk with a limp, or a stick, or need assistance, or a wheelchair.. "

 

so ... "I don`t  believe that he is disabled " ....

 

 

 

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Re: Good Deal or no Deal


@JonoH wrote:

@arjay wrote:

Why are loyal customers expected to pay more to subsidise new customers?

I totally understand your point, the problem we have now is that the market place for broadband is so competitive that new customer offers are often loss-leading, enticing the customer to try your brand, if they like it they'll stay (or if they simply don't bother to change they'll also stay). Ofcom reported that just 9% of customers switched in 2019 flipping that on its head 81% did not switch and stayed where they were.

I have to agree with you up to a degree on that point but think you might find, times are a changing. Albeit slowly at the moment. I'd been out of contract for a good year or so before I'd even gave switching a thought. But what made for a game changer was the ease that switching can now be achieved (like others my hearing isn't 100%, so I tend to avoid phone calls if I can). It really was a walk in the park. Looking at some of the posts on here I really was expecting hell on earth to arrive and yet on the day, at 12.30AM my fibre disconnected. I get up at 5.30AM, found the internet was off, inputted the new username etc into the router and that was it. Changeover completed.

 

I suspect as more people find how easy it is to switch that 9% WILL rise. How fast? Well that depends on how you are treating all your customers! 😁

Ever helpful. Grin Sure, I’d love to help you out. Now which way did you come in?
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Re: Good Deal or no Deal

@ JonoH

I understand the use of loss leaders and have to accept them as part of modern day commerce.

I have been offered a new contract with PN even though my current contract doesn’t run out until April. The offer is only 1p more than I’m now paying even though there is an increase in line rental, I’m happy with that not having to use the phone

New customers are being offered an eighteen month contract  at £4 a month less than I pay, OK. not too bad, I suppose, but on top of that there is a  whopping £75.00 cash back or more than three months free broadband about 16.5% of the contract period, not so easy to swallow.

The more people that come to understand the benefits offered to new customers and the ease of moving, the more will change to new providers and reap the benefits. With the use of loss leaders I have to ask what percentage of your customers have to migrate before you’re making no profit at all.

Though I’m not 100% happy, I will stay with PN because I’ve never had problems with them apart from the hiccup with Accounts, as has been pointed out, changing to a new provider is an unknown quantity so better to stay with the devil you know than with one you don’t know

Yes I now fall into that band of non-changers but I won’t get caught out with price hikes when the contract expires thanks to Ofcom


@JonoH wrote:

@arjay wrote:

Put simply, we need new customers to choose us just to tread water

Sorry, with all the floods there's a shortage of waders 😀

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Re: Good Deal or no Deal

@ JonaH

My original posting was to use the platform of the forum to express my views, open to agreement or disagreement by anyone, and to gain some idea of the general feeling on the subject. It was not some high minded idea that I would be instrumental in the slightest of bringing about change or start some sort of campaign

My posting has had some success in bringing about a better understanding of today’s marketing and the affects its pressures have on businesses. Though I add that I take some of the explanations with a pinch of salt.

The denials that loyal customers are not subsidising the loss leader contracts is imho flim-flam. If I was running a business in which a percentage of it was running at a loss, would I not be trying to recoup that loss from wherever,  why else would I be running a business  not a charity, in this case it can only be from loyal customers.

If there were no pressures bringing about the need of loss leaders, if it was a flat playing field and all were paying the same price for the service they were receiving, do I believe we would be paying less, yes I do.

The good news is that having been offered an acceptable contract from PN, I’m sticking around. The bad news for the forums  is I’LL BE BACK 😎