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Fuel issues

Community Veteran
Posts: 7,154
Thanks: 54
Fixes: 2
Registered: 30-08-2007

Fuel issues

In these times of rapidly rising fuel prices and (allegedly) dwindling stocks of fossil fuel. How does motor racing justify it's continued wastage of these resources at prodigious rates for no apparent reason except for reasons of vanity.
I admit, I find F1 etc. about as exciting as watching paint after it's dried, but I don't begrudge others their right to enjoy it if that's their thing. Since most racing teams are sponsored by one fuel company or other, I don't expect they have to pay for it.
No doubt the engineering companies will tell you the research and development is the reasoning behind it, but how much more development is needed to sit in traffic jams and abide by national speed limits, the number of drivers who can afford, or realistically use cars that can top 200+mph or 60mph in under 3 seconds is strictly limited.
Just on the subject of F1, I think the succession of practice days should be scrapped, and grid positions drawn out of a hat on the day of the race, that'll sort the men from the boy's.
I can't include all types of motor racing in this as some categories of drag racing (about the only one I find mildly entertaining) use alcohol or nitro based fuel. If they can use it, why can't it be adapted to use in ordinary motor vehicles? 
Experience; is something you gain, just after you needed it most.

When faced with two choices, simply toss a coin. It works not because it settles the question for you. But because in that brief moment while the coin is in the air. You suddenly know what you are hoping for.
43 REPLIES
Community Veteran
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Registered: 02-02-2008

Re: Fuel issues

On the other hand think of all those millions sitting at home watching it on TV who are NOT out driving their cars somewhere. Grin
maranello
Aspiring Pro
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Re: Fuel issues

The issue of dwindling fuel stocks is in my opinion a bit of a red herring in any debate. Consider that there are only 22 vehicles competing in a Formula 1 Grand Prix, each completing of the order of 200 miles. I don't have exact figures for consumption, but consider that they refuel on average 3 times (including the fuel with which they start the race), and each fill is of the order of 90kg. I won't do the maths, because if I do someone will come along to tell me I did it wrong, or missed out something. Compare this usage with the, say, 10000 cars driven by fans who go to watch each race. Compare this to the number of much shorter but more frequent journeys made in the daily school run. compare this to all the other leisure related activities (including theme parks, music concerts, club and international football or rugby matches, other sports) that people enjoy that they need to drive to in order to take part.
The safety developments and increases in fuel efficiency that have been apparent in recent years' of motorsport formula have made their way into the cars we drive on the roads. Motorsport is a leisure activity for many people as both participant and spectator, but it is easy to attack Formula 1 on the grounds of fuel wastage because it is so much in the public eye and seen by many as a minority sport (or not even a sport!). Tell people that they shouldn't support motorsport events because it is wasteful of resources, and the response from most fans would be to justify why they enjoy the sport. Tell people to switch their televisions off instead of leaving them on standby and they just ignore the advice.

My other car isn't a Ferrari
nadger
Rising Star
Posts: 4,498
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Registered: 13-04-2007

Re: Fuel issues

Starting grid is now only 20 cars  Wink
I'm a life long fan of F1 ( Grand Prix etc) so long may it last on tv - wonder what BBC format will be like next season.
Bob_Milton
Grafter
Posts: 688
Registered: 31-07-2007

Re: Fuel issues

petlew says,
Quote
Experience; is something you gain, just after you needed it most

F1 is after all an experience. I like it.
I guess there is a lot of TV experience which could be done without. I for instance have never watched Coronation Street and similar programmes but I would not try to link watching them to fuel prices. That is stretching things a bit.
On the other hand it doesn't hurt anyone if petlew wants to complain about something. Go ahead old chap, feel free to  bxxxh about whatever you like.
My life experience has made me used to encountering ill informed chatter.
Explanatory addition,
when I checked using 'preview', my use of the word 'bxxxh was censored. The actual word I used was that given to a female dog.
Are we overdoing the politically correct bit when that happens?
Am I allowed to female dog about overdoing the censorship please?
At least it has been another experience.
Bob_Milton
Grafter
Posts: 688
Registered: 31-07-2007

Re: Fuel issues

I know of a word in common usage which is not censored.
It was missed by Mary Whitehouse and is commonly used by lots of people including very well brought up folk. I wouldn't be surprised if many of you have used it from time to time.
Steptoe and Son frequently used it. It is part of Cockney rhyming slang, where there is often a shortening of the original phrase.
Please beleive me, it is extremely offensive. It is not a word that I would use in public.
pierre_pierre
Grafter
Posts: 19,757
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: Fuel issues

Quote
and each fill is of the order of 90kg. I won't do the maths

1 litre fuel approx 0.8 kg  so 3x90 = 270kg  /0.8 = 337 litre x 20 cars = 6750 litre
does that help?  Cool
itsme
Grafter
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Registered: 07-04-2007

Re: Fuel issues

Summary of one new rule for the 2008 season
Quote
Biofuel
As part of moves to make Formula One racing ever more environmentally friendly, the FIA has introduced a new rule governing fuel. From 2008, at least 5.75 percent of all fuel must contain biomatter and, as a result, all cars must be designed to be biofuel compliant.
   
Moderator
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Registered: 14-04-2007

Re: Fuel issues

...and the BMW car's engine cuts out at the start of the chicane and restarts at the exit Grin
Customer and Forum Moderator.
Product of the Tyrell Corporation
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Re: Fuel issues

Quote from: pierre_pierre
Quote
and each fill is of the order of 90kg. I won't do the maths

1 litre fuel approx 0.8 kg  so 3x90 = 270kg  /0.8 = 337 litre x 20 cars = 6750 litre
does that help?  Cool

or..... about 75 galls per car... Cheesy
Community Veteran
Posts: 7,154
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Registered: 30-08-2007

Re: Fuel issues

Quote from: itsme

As part of moves to make Formula One racing ever more environmentally friendly, the FIA has introduced a new rule governing fuel. From 2008, at least 5.75 percent of all fuel must contain biomatter and, as a result, all cars must be designed to be biofuel compliant.

5.75% is slightly over 1/17th, the other slightly over 16 parts is fossil fuel (and is better than the targets currently set by governments for use at retail petrol pumps) I appreciate where they're coming from, and what they appear they're trying to do but, the percentage is not going to save much, they'd save a lot more if they and the quote 10000 cars didn't use any at all.
That said, I did say right at the beginning that I didn't begrudge the enthusiasts their pleasure, just be aware of what you're doing, and that one day history may suggest it's irresponsible.
Experience; is something you gain, just after you needed it most.

When faced with two choices, simply toss a coin. It works not because it settles the question for you. But because in that brief moment while the coin is in the air. You suddenly know what you are hoping for.
pjemmanuel
Grafter
Posts: 349
Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: Fuel issues

On top of the biofuel rule this year, next year will see the introductions of KERS, or Kinetic Energy Recovery System. From 2009, F1 cars will be permitted to recover and store energy from braking and use it as a power boost. So instead of wasting energy under braking, it is stored, I believe using a flywheel system, then released after braking to assist with acceleration out of the corner.
This is a new technology which could find it's way into road vehicles, not particularly for todays petrol cars, but for the battery cars of the future. Any system which can increase the currently poor battery performance has to be a good thing.
And I say that as an F1 fan, but I do believe that for the first time in many years, a useful technology could emerge from F1.
Just to keep a balanced view of F1 though, I cannot believe that there will be one night race this year and at least two next year. Singapore will be a night race this year and next year and it is likely that Malaysia and possibly Australia will be night races next year, just so us fans over here can watch them at lunchtime on a Sunday instead of in the early hours of the morning.
Any "Green" credentials earned by specifying having to use Biofuels from this year are massively spent by hoisting huge floodlights over a track or city circuit and lighting them up for 2 hours or so - I don't want to be getting the tokens for those meters......  Shocked
pierre_pierre
Grafter
Posts: 19,757
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: Fuel issues

Quote
On top of the biofuel rule this year, next year will see the introductions of KERS, or Kinetic Energy Recovery System. From 2009, F1 cars will be permitted to recover and store energy from braking and use it as a power boost. So instead of wasting energy under braking, it is stored, I believe using a flywheel system, then released after braking to assist with acceleration out of the corner.

Thought that was very old technology, Electric milk floats used it to charge the batteries during braking
Community Veteran
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Re: Fuel issues

I wonder what effects a flywheel would have on cornering an F1 car. Probably manageable if it's axis is vertical. Crazy
pierre_pierre
Grafter
Posts: 19,757
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: Fuel issues

Maybe, but think of the amount of power to be stored, half tonne of car from 200 km/hr to 50km/hr very short time
That should keep it on the bit of string Crazy