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Fuel consumption

Community Veteran
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Registered: 24-09-2008

Fuel consumption

DAK where I can find the fuel consumption (MPG or similiar) for a typical 'sprinter' type train (pictured below).
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Community Veteran
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Registered: 30-08-2007

Re: Fuel consumption

Don't think you'll find an actual mpg figure -its entirely possible the operators don't know what it is anyway- I think like airlines, coach operators etc. they rate their routes by cost per passenger mile (or kilometre) or sfc (specific fuel consumption, usually per hour but may be by distance if it suits the route) figure's far more important to them than just plain old mpg.
Whichever you choose, its likely to be far better if expressed as mpg per passenger than you could do in most cars.
Experience; is something you gain, just after you needed it most.

When faced with two choices, simply toss a coin. It works not because it settles the question for you. But because in that brief moment while the coin is in the air. You suddenly know what you are hoping for.
Community Veteran
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Re: Fuel consumption

@Petlew, thanks, was after a caparison with a coach say a 54 seater.
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Re: Fuel consumption

This may help http://www.transport-watch.co.uk/transport-fact-sheet-5.htm
Quote
Passenger Rail
The tables in section 6 of the RSSB source provide 2,900 GWh of electricity at the substations and 4700 GWh of diesel to the traction units.
Hence the total primary burn amounted to (2,900 x 3 + 4,700 x 1.1) = 13,870 GWh, equivalent to: 286 million gallons of diesel.
There were 43.2 billion passenger km.  Hence we have:
(43.2 x 109 x 0.625) / (286 x 106) = 94.4 passenger-miles per gallon.
In comparison an express coach returning 10 miles per gallon and with as few as 20 people aboard would  return 180 passenger-miles per gallon after allowing for refinery and transport losses of 10%.  (Note, the RSSB suggest express coaches have a 60% occupancy ,equivalent to 30 people for a 50-seat coach).  The corresponding system wide fuel consumption would then be (43.2 x 109 x 0.625)/180 = 150 million gallons, or 573 KT diesel or 7,272 GWh.
Community Veteran
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Re: Fuel consumption

@oldjim, thanks, that was the kind of information I was after.
Community Veteran
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Re: Fuel consumption

It would be interesting to see the figures for high-speed trains.
I suspect that travelling by car (even singly) or plane uses less fuel.  Lips are sealed
gswindale
Grafter
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Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: Fuel consumption

Well clearly you taking a trip from Reading to Swindon by yourself in a car will use less fuel than getting on board a HST packed with other passengers  Grin
However the fuel consumption figures per passenger may make for different reading.
What about the electric high speed trains - they should be more efficient than diesel, but remember you can't do a mpg comparison.
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Re: Fuel consumption

Quote from: geofftswin
electric high speed trains - they should be more efficient than diesel,

I'm pretty sure I read something very recently that explained that diesel-electric is significantly more efficient than straight electric, mainly due to generation/transmission being pretty inefficient.
(what we call diesel trains are almost invariably diesel-electric in practice)
And that's at the same speed.  Wink
Community Veteran
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Re: Fuel consumption

Almost HP, the type of train that journeys was referring to in the OP uses direct underfloor diesel drive. Agreed, as you say diesel electric drive using a diesel driven generator are quite efficient (relatively) but these are mostly confined to locomotives rather than multi-unit trains. 
Experience; is something you gain, just after you needed it most.

When faced with two choices, simply toss a coin. It works not because it settles the question for you. But because in that brief moment while the coin is in the air. You suddenly know what you are hoping for.
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Re: Fuel consumption

Quote from: Petlew
the type of train that journeys was referring to in the OP uses direct underfloor diesel drive.

Indded, I think it's actually a hydraulic trasmission.
I was referring more generally to diesel trains, not just the Sprinters.  Wink
Community Veteran
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Registered: 30-08-2007

Re: Fuel consumption

Quote from: journeys
was after a caparison with a coach say a 54 seater.

Since I work for a coach operator, I'll ask them (I drive'm not worry about the how much it costs)  and we do run a couple of 54 seaters.
However, it is a small company and may not have the interest in complex fuel usage figures, but I will ask the question.
Er! exactly what question are you asking?
Experience; is something you gain, just after you needed it most.

When faced with two choices, simply toss a coin. It works not because it settles the question for you. But because in that brief moment while the coin is in the air. You suddenly know what you are hoping for.
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Re: Fuel consumption

Scroll down on this
http://www.transport-watch.co.uk/transport-pdfs/transport-fact-sheet-5.pdf
and you will see the Introduction, explaining the figures....
then scroll down a bit and see this...
Passenger Rail returned the equivalent of 94 passenger miles per gallon
and a bit further down ... this...
In comparison express coaches with 20 passengers aboard would provide 180 passenger miles
per gallon
The above figures are for the "System Wide" figures .....
Community Veteran
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Re: Fuel consumption

@petlew:-  fuel consumption of say a 54 seater coach in MPG
@shutter:- Thanks
Question came up at a meeting on the proposition of re-opening a 'light' railway line, one of the discussions maintained that train travel (fuel consumption only) was far more efficient than road travel
Although I'm pro train travel and would endorse the proposition, I felt using fuel consumption as an argument was misleading.
I wanted to go back to the proposer with some details.
The re-opening of this line has been discussed for 30 odd years, it was basically written off as no go because of H&S. What prompted the meeting was the re-opening of the line (tunnel lighting and all) as a cycle way.
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Re: Fuel consumption

There used to be a branch line between Fareham and Gosport.... originally built (I believe) so that  Queen Victoria could get to Gosport on the train to travel on to Osborne House on the IOW....
After closure, it lay derelict for a while, then the local council decided to tarmac the trackbed and turned it into a footpath.... they are at present "converting" it into a "guided bus route".... at enormous cost.... rebuilding bridges and underpasses for the bus to run unhindered... quite a lot of opposition from people who`s gardens back onto the "track"... It is conceived as a way to get motorists to abandon their cars, to get to Fareham for shopping , and off to the rest of the UK road network.!  ,< HA HA HA>..  in order to relieve congestion on the main route...  If you are interested, Google maps for Gosport, and directions to Fareham... then go to satellite view... and you will be able to see the old track bed route...
If the council had really thought about it,... they could have leased the land , and probably taken shares in. a bid to re-open the line as a Heritage Line... to bring visitors INTO Gosport... ... the similarity of location to the SWANAGE Railway, cannot be missed.... and that seems to be doing very nicely thank you...
gswindale
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Re: Fuel consumption

now a "light" railway line makes me think of something more along the lines of the West Midlands Metro service rather than full blown DMUs operating the services.