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Freeview On Demand

Kremmen
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Freeview On Demand

Noticed an article yesterday about Freeview and a new online on demand service they have in the pipeline.
It's all very well to provide yet another online iPlayer type service but in the main isn't this adding to the strain on the already overloaded telephone line infrastructure?
There have also been rumblings about moving TV away from the airwaves and all online in years to come. I'm struggling to see how this going to work reliably.
Let's be careful out there !
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nanotm
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Re: Freeview On Demand

because as the majority of people have fibre connection the limitation on content delivery are increased,
a single channel broadcast requires about 2 meg of bandwidth for a good stream (without buffering) the average family home will need enough bandwidth for 12 simultaneous streams + browsing (12 streams because of recording shows whilst watching them)
it would however be more likely that satellite will become the only way to get tv as more and more "content delivery services"  clog up the fixed lines especially when you realise that population grows geometrically and there talking about doing this by 2050, strangly the same time that the UK's adult population is expected to reach numbers in excess of 100 million
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
alanf
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Re: Freeview On Demand

Quote from: nanotm
there talking about doing this by 2050,

"The connected service will initially offer BBC iPlayer, ITV Player and Channel 4’s on demand service, and will be available later in the year. There will also be a scroll back electronic programme guide linked to live TV."
http://www.mediaweek.co.uk/article/1333556/freeview-launch-on-demand-service
2015 not 2050!
Quote from: nanotm
it would however be more likely that satellite will become the only way to get tv as more and more "content delivery services"  clog up the fixed lines

It is possible that new technology will increase the capacity of fibre.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23096320
I don't see how satellite would be a solution for video on demand. There is only a limited bandwidth.
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Re: Freeview On Demand

Majority on fibre?
Broadband Internet connections using fibre optic or cable were used by 42% of households, up from 30% in 2012.  Source ONS 2013
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alanf
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Re: Freeview On Demand

Quote from: AlaricAdair
Majority on fibre?

Thanks AA for finding the statistics. I tried and failed. I hadn't realise that take up was as high as that.
Perhaps nanotm is right (though it would be good to have actual evidence). If there was an increase from 30% in 2012 to 42% in 2013, 50%+ does not seem impossible by February 2015.
nanotm
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Re: Freeview On Demand

theres no interpretation required its pretty plain,
the push is to stop using terrestrial transmitters for radio or tv and move everything over to provision by wire feed (fibre) by 2050 (I don't care about increases in content delivery being phased in between now and then) the problem with this is capacity and the number of end users (consumers) who will have a connection capable of receiving such a service, allegedly by 2021 95% of the country will be provisioned for fibre services (yeah right, that's the latest revised time line from the original 2017 estimate.....) but the broadcasters have failed to take account of the simple things like 3d/4k requiring 5meg + bandwidth per stream (and if its possible everyone will want it on everything) so the only viable alternative will be satellite based (which both freesat coalition and bskyb knew 5 years ago)  because there you only need one set of bandwidth per channel and everyone in the whole country gets the same broadcast without requiring separate sets of bandwidth per user device.....
your misunderstanding of what reference I was using has nothing to do with the point I was making, until they figure out how to give each person a terabyte pipe it wont be possible to provide all those services via wire in the standards that will be required
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
nadger
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Re: Freeview On Demand

A lot of our viewing is via demand services and a Roku ( recently upgraded to HDMI Streaming Stick)
Still using ADSL,  which gives 9.397 Mbps, and that copes as normally only one device used.
We use NOWTV, Netflix, iPlayer, ITV Player, 4OD and Demand5 and all run smoothly.
Live TV is via Freesat
alanf
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Re: Freeview On Demand

Quote from: nanotm
theres no interpretation required its pretty plain,

This appears to refer to an earlier draft of my post originally timed at 09:54 which I was amending as you prepared your reply. Sorry for any confusion caused.
Quote from: nanotm
so the only viable alternative will be satellite based (which both freesat coalition and bskyb knew 5 years ago)  because there you only need one set of bandwidth per channel and everyone in the whole country gets the same broadcast without requiring separate sets of bandwidth per user device.....

The original post relates to "Freeview On Demand" (branded Freeview Play) which will provide an integrated catch up service. Less and less TV is being watched as it is broadcast. Some is recorded by viewers on their own machines to watch at a convenient time but catch up services are increasing being used instead. Satellite TV is fine for broadcasts but will not provide a solution for the required multitude of video on demand services.
nanotm
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Re: Freeview On Demand

if I understand things correctly a single iptv/stream channel requires 2..5 meg of bandwith (2 down 0.5 up) freeview provides 32 channels (more in some areas I know) so that would require a connection of 32*2=64/16  as a minimum to provide those channels through the phone line, (remember if its iptv it comes through the system as standard internet traffic) if you want to use that connection for anything else you need a bigger connection, lets say 80/20 perfect line, (giving 16/4 free) you want to watch that 4k movie from Netflix instead of the freeview, but it needs 20/5 and your over capacity without even using your connection....
the only way to provision services like freeview would be to upgrade home conections to the PSTN up to a minimum of 200/50 (more if you add more channels) and still be able to get 4k streams to work alongside them....
add in the continual upgrades in vision technology and by 2050 its guestimated that everyone will have 3d projection boxes utilising visual streams in excess of 50meg per channel, and suddenly it becomes apparent that there is zero possibility for wired technology to provide this capability on more than a handful of channels (if your network base load is broadcast channels your network needs to ignore them and sell the capacity on the top, the BT system couldn't cope with it across the basic freeview offerings never mind adding the pay channels on top) that leaves you looking to a dedicated system to deliver that content with as now just a few on demand streams over the fixed line network, and its here that you realise satellite is the only way forwards
a satellite capable of broadcasting a terabyte of data per second is what sky use right now, in 3.5 decades they will likely have it capable of broadcasting 1000 times that capacity and still have it utilising less than 40% for the tv side of things, certainly its a much more elegant solution than laying fibre lanes that are hundreds of meters in diameter just to connect every home with enough bandwidth to receive tv and still utilise the internet as we do now ....
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
Superuser
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Re: Freeview On Demand

If I've understood what you are saying correctly, why would you need to download all 32 channels constantly, unless you have 32 devices all view a different channel at the same time?
nanotm
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Re: Freeview On Demand

Quote from: alanf
It is possible that new technology will increase the capacity of fibre.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23096320
I don't see how satellite would be a solution for video on demand. There is only a limited bandwidth.

on demand isn't a base line broadcast its a single stream activated by the user so even if the stream were requiring 50/10 bandwidth on a standard fibre connection this wouldn't be a problem...
as to fibre getting better, light only moves so fast, only so many wavelengths can be used in a single fibre line, the ability to upgrade the capacity of fibre is always going to be limited to the number of physical lines you hook up to the property and the power required to run the emitter/receiver at each end, sure miniaturisation might allow a slightly better system but that would also require changing all the fibre (not to mention running it all the way to each property) which would be expensive and seriously dent the bottom line
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
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Re: Freeview On Demand

Copper telephone lines can handle terabytes of bandwidth, if not more, without the need for fibre replacements, but, nobody seems to be bothered about making it so (though there's been tests done at universities and the ubiquitous Bell Labs, but, getting that technology into this backwards country, ugh!! Heck, it took until the 1980s for DTMF telephones to appear, yet the US had 'em since the 1960s!!!), FTTC is a stopgap measure really until they can get corporate management issues out of the way and just get on with the network investment...
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Re: Freeview On Demand

Check the length of the transmission cable before believing the press about possible transmission rates over twisted pair copper.
FTTC is essentially VDSL over copper from the FTTC street cabinet with fibre to the cabinet.
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Re: Freeview On Demand

Look up Bell Labs, and find out what they do and have done in the past for the telecommunications systems worldwide, they've successfully attained a 1Gbps Symmetrical (I.E. 1Gb Up, 1Gb Down) speed in their work to make access to the web faster, and they can go faster with the right technology, so, the mouldy old copper line isn't a write-off just yet... Smiley
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Re: Freeview On Demand

Is this technology to which you refer?
During testing, Bell Labs showed that XG-FAST technology can deliver 1 Gbps symmetrical services over 70 meters (for the cable being tested). This was achieved using a frequency range of 350 MHz. Signals at higher frequencies were completely attenuated after 70 meters.
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