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For once I agree with a government minister

Community Veteran
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Registered: 15-06-2007

For once I agree with a government minister

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25321113
Quote
Mr Harper told the Commons Home Affairs Committee: "Mr Batchelor was talking about hiring people in his particular pizza chain. And it seems to me that if you have jobs available and you can't fill them, he perhaps ought to just reflect on the salary package that he's offering".
He added: "He should probably pay his staff a little more and then he might find them easier to recruit then. It's a market."
Mr Harper said the government would not make it easier to bring in "relatively unskilled" workers from "outside the European Union just so that he can keep his wages low.
17 REPLIES
RichAllen
Grafter
Posts: 805
Registered: 14-09-2013

Re: For once I agree with a government minister

You know what they say, if you pay Peanuts, you get Monkeys.
And no, I am not referring to East Europeans as Monkeys, I don't do racism.
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,586
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Registered: 16-02-2009

Re: For once I agree with a government minister

The real issue is that "illegal immigrants" are employing jobs that would otherwise be available. Why employ someone at £6/hr when you can pay £3/4 and they will accept it  Crazy
I can't even get a job with a Computing Degree - useless now as it is over 10 years old. I am going to have to sign on again shortly just to see if they WILL offer me any retraining (they didn't 2/3 years ago) I am over qualified to fill shelves and have been out of employment for too long to get a job in IT.
RichAllen
Grafter
Posts: 805
Registered: 14-09-2013

Re: For once I agree with a government minister

I have the same problem, I have almost every computing certificate there is bar a Degree, 15 years ago when I was on Jobseekers I set myself up an interview at the local Co Op for a shelf stacking job, the Manageress took a look at my Record of Achievement from school and College, and told me to my face that she did not want to insult me by giving me a job that was beneath me, as I was better qualified than most of their senior staff! I'm sorry but but WTF?! Also, I asked about working on the till as I wanted to do customer service, and she told me they exclusively used women on the checkouts, eh? Even in 1998 this was probably illegal under various sex discrimination laws.
I officially give up, even the ****ing social services have turned round and told me that from the beginning of next year I have to pay £30 a time in transport fees to go to my voluntary job with South Yorkshire Police in Rotherham, I don't want to, but I now think I will be forced to give up my job because I can't affford £120 a month in transport fees for 9 months a year during term time.
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,586
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Registered: 16-02-2009

Re: For once I agree with a government minister

Yeah the famous "doing voluntary work will help get you a job", But how do we get to the place of FREE work? We have to pay for buses etc. I can't afford £3 a day to travel to the nearest place. If I sign on again then I will have to walk to the jcp about 4 miles round trip as I will not be paying the bus fare either.
Take the car/bike I hear you say, well no parking for free and fuel isn't free either.
David_W
Rising Star
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Registered: 19-07-2007

Re: For once I agree with a government minister

Have you thought about an OU refresher course to give you an up-to-date qualification in IT?
Quote
Qualifying benefits are any of the following benefits received by yourself or any partner: income support, housing benefit (including local housing allowance), income-related employment and support allowance, income-based jobseeker's allowance and universal credit.

There are some courses where you may be able to substitute the qualification they let you earn with one you already own so if you have the right qualifications you could just spend 12 months getting a Foundation Degree or even a Bsc (I'm currently doing my Bsc Honours in IT).  It might be worth contacting the OU for more information, plus if you're on a qualifying benefit the course is free.
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,586
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Registered: 16-02-2009

Re: For once I agree with a government minister

I thought about continuing with the OU a couple of years ago. In Scotland those benefits don't count  Crazy SO I would have to apply for a hardship fund grant.
David_W
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Registered: 19-07-2007

Re: For once I agree with a government minister

If you have a gander....
http://www.open.ac.uk/study/credit-transfer/
You can see about transferring the credit to the OU, with any luck you may be able to get full credits with a simple refresher.
Having a quick look at the OU too with random figures for Scotland...
Quote
Using the information you have given us it is likely that you are eligible for an award from the Student Awards Agency for Scotland (SAAS) that will pay your course fees.

So it really may be worth having a quick check, especially if it'd be helpful to you (I really enjoyed the Maths course I did with OU, it was difficult, the basic IT courses...... too basic so got really bored, am now starting a Stage 2 course which is supposed to be a follow on from a course which doesn't start until the middle of next year so I'm having to do the hard course before I can do the course I'm supposed to do before doing the hard course, it could be a challenge..........)
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,586
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Registered: 16-02-2009

Re: For once I agree with a government minister

I've already got some credits with the OU (from late 80's a M101/M205 and started a M305 I think (Pascal programming and a gawd awful text editor that made dos's EDIT look good.) I had to drop out as I was working all over the world at the time, and getting assessments in was near impossible. When I inquired a couple of years ago I would get full credits from my degree (in 96) but as I said I would have had to apply for hardship funding, as I already have a degree (and a paid off student loan!)
I complained to my SMP at the time, and got the usual fob off, saying that I could apply for the hardship funding so it was the same as getting direct by having CTB  - NOT.
Community Veteran
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Registered: 02-08-2007

Re: For once I agree with a government minister

Don't take this the wrong way but I know several people, my daughter being one who have considerable experience and qualifications in their field of work BUT despite this have had to continue to take additional training at their own expense and in their own time (being self employed) It seem that most Degrees have a  "shelf life" of so many years and additional training is required to successfully continue in that particular field of work.
At One time you could get a degree and be fixed up with a job for life but that no longer applies and competition is fierce as there are many more candidates from overseas who are willing to do the work for less money and in some but not all cases have the necessary skills to do it.
Oddly enough there are some professions where you might have expected staff to undergo frequent training such as general practitioners but it is only in recent years they have been required to do this despite the rapidly changes taking place in medicine and surgery.
nanotm
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Registered: 11-02-2013

Re: For once I agree with a government minister

yet some things like a degree in electronic engineering is still valid 20 years on because the basic stuff is always the basic stuff.....
as for training days maybe its different in different areas but all the GP surgeries I've had contact with in the last 20 years have closed for training every week for a few hours, prior to that it was felt that staff would "educate themselves" when not at work (not a clever idea) I guess that's why throughout the years there have been good (knowledgeable up to the minute) doctors and those viewed as ancient (stick to tried and tested out of date stuff and never move with the times) bit like the ones who adopted the it systems and those who rigidly refuse to move on from paper files
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
Community Veteran
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Registered: 16-02-2009

Re: For once I agree with a government minister

I am well aware of the need for self/staff training. But when you have NO money how do you finance it? A standard IT 5 day course is nearly £2000. I don't even have a quarter of that, and all that is needed for food and heating.
nanotm
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Registered: 11-02-2013

Re: For once I agree with a government minister

why would you need to do a 2 grand IT course if you already have qualifications in the subject ?
forgive me but most people manage to stay up to date on there chosen field through publications particularly in things like IT where its 90% theoretical and the basic practical stuff doesn't change much from one generation to the next, I mean the convention of how things fit together hasn't changed since the first PC was put on the market, and all the software changes are freely available via the internet without the need to attend some course or other, even networking standards are fully published online.
so there is little to no requirement for a trained person to attend any course in order to say there qualified and up to date, often a few questions at interview will determine the truth of things in that regard.......
its a different matter of course if you don't have the basic knowledge from which to build everything else, and fail to keep abreast of changes in the field, but then anyone who seriously seeks employment in a field would be remiss to lapse in there subject knowledge.....
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
Community Veteran
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Registered: 29-10-2008

Re: For once I agree with a government minister

Quote from: Hairy
But when you have NO money how do you finance it?

Fancy a MOOC? (Actually, having just looked, I quite fancy a couple of these myself.)
Gabe
David_W
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Registered: 19-07-2007

Re: For once I agree with a government minister

IT changes quickly, what may have been useful 10 years ago is out of date today.  You may have a degree in IT communications from the year 2000, heck, you may have gone all the way and got a Doctorate, but will that 10 year old degree allow you to apply for a job working with IPV6?  Cisco qualifications themselves are only valid for 3 years, so you have to retake the exam every 3 years to show you can use current technology applications.
I'd guess the idea with an IT degree is that you obtain it and then find employment where you continue to learn on the job, as your job changes over-time and you are introduced to new technology (we're slowly moving away from large, in house network systems where everything is run on Cisco to cloud based solutions) your experience helps you and you use that experience to keep your knowledge up to date.
If you do your degree in IT and then take a break from the field, by the time you come back the technology backbone could have changed to such a degree that the things you learnt and which were pertinent 10 years ago no longer apply, your degree has been depreciated.  The same could easily be true of Doctors, if they take a 10 year break, when they come back they may be able to diagnose an issue but then they would need to study up on current treatments and best practice for the condition they are looking at, the medicine they may have given 10 years ago may now be considered out of date and not fit for purpose.
So really, a degree is basically a "I can do this much now" not a "I can do this much later", it's just a way to get your foot in the door to gain experience.