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Energy Prices

Community Veteran
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Registered: 24-09-2008

Energy Prices

How many times does this subject come up on chit chat?
In the Labour conference yesterday,  Ed Miliband stated that if Labour were elected at the next election, they would freeze energy prices for 20 months. Energy suppliers have said that this would cause energy blackouts.
Since the privatisation of the energy sector has confused the  house holder  with different tariffs, free market electricity and confusing switching tactics all leading to higher profits for shareholders, high prices for householders and lack of infrastructure spending.
The old CEGB perhaps had it right. Wink
Does anybody else agree that the energy sector is possible broken. That nationalising the energy sector might be the best way forward. To do away with the competition, create a level playing field and a possibly inefficient, non-competitive industry, that through over employment by the creation of engineering and electrical apprenticeship schemes, might bring the employment level down, bring prices down, and create a generation of engineers rather than call centre operators.
Can we put the genie back in the bottle? Undecided
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Moderator
Moderator
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Re: Energy Prices

Not sure how you think re-nationalising will reduce prices?
Whilst dependent on bringing fuel into the country are the energy suppliers not at the mercy of the wholesale market?
Will Moderate For Thanks
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Re: Energy Prices

I think at the very least we should be like some other sensible countries.
In that at the very least utilities, if they are in private hands, must be owned and run by British companies.
Community Veteran
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Re: Energy Prices

Quote
Does anybody else agree that the energy sector is possible broken. That nationalising the energy sector might be the best way forward. To do away with the competition, create a level playing field and a possibly inefficient, non-competitive industry, that through over employment by the creation of engineering and electrical apprenticeship schemes, might bring the employment level down, bring prices down, and create a generation of engineers rather than call centre operators.
I have to seriously question the logic of this
Inefficient and over employment means cost increases so how will that bring prices down.
If the industry is nationalised where is the money going to come from to
a) Pay for it
b) Pay for the major investment in infrastructure needed to use wind farms
c) Build the new power stations needed to cover for all the coal ones which will be closing down due to the climate change levy
d) Build and maintain rapid response power stations on standby for when the wind stops blowing
e) All the extra investment needed to pay for this "That is why Labour will have a world leading commitment in government to take all of the carbon out of our energy by 2030."
Note that the only way to do that is nuclear and who is going to pay for that
To add look at the price comparison

Community Veteran
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Re: Energy Prices

Quote from: billnotben
I think at the very least we should be like some other sensible countries.
if they are in private hands, must be owned and run by British companies.

and prosper,
just like.......  Triumph..... Vauxhall.... Jowett ..... BMC.... Jaguar.... et al.... Undecided
Community Veteran
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Re: Energy Prices

Quote from: Oldjim
I have to seriously question the logic of this
Inefficient and over employment means cost increases so how will that bring prices down.
.... wind farms ...Build the new power stations ...Build and maintain rapid response power stations...
To add look at the price comparison

Jim, you talk generally about electricity then show a comparison graph for gas prices  Lips are sealed
You'll find that we're currently relatively inexpensive for gas since we still produce a decent amount from the North Sea but what about the comparison of Electricity prices against other countries?

Quote
That is why Labour will have a world leading commitment in government to take all of the carbon out of our energy by 2030.

Hmmm, if you do that to Natural gas you're left with Hydrogen  Crazy  It'd be very 'clean' but VERY expensive.  Shocked
Call me 'w23'
At any given moment in the universe many things happen. Coincidence is a matter of how close these events are in space, time and relationship.
Opinions expressed in forum posts are those of the poster, others may have different views.
Community Veteran
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Re: Energy Prices

I didn't find a graph for electric but will look
I wonder how you do that as natural gas is methane CH4 so when burned the reaction is CH4 + 2O2 = CO2 + 2H2O so what happens to the CO2 as there isn't a system for getting rid of it
Regarding the source of natural gas this is a year old but shows the trend
http://www.edfenergy.com/energyfuture/energy-gap-security/gas-and-the-energy-gap-security
Quote
North Sea gas reserves are dwindling, so the UK imports a large proportion of its natural gas. In 2009, 45% of the natural gas used in the UK was imported, and this figure is expected to reach 69% by 2019. This growing dependence on imports poses a potential risk to the security of the UK's gas supply.

Found this http://basepub.dauphine.fr/bitstream/handle/123456789/7730/IFRI_mcrucianipdf.pdf?sequence=1 see picture
Community Veteran
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Re: Energy Prices

Quote from: shutter
and prosper,
just like.......  Triumph..... Vauxhall.... Jowett ..... BMC.... Jaguar.... et al.

Are you saying all British companies are failures and all foreign ones success stories?
Just as easy to list foreign owned companies that have failed here.
Being British owned is more about National security. Something all political parties profess to be in favour of. A number one priority.
Community Veteran
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Re: Energy Prices

Quote from: w23
Quote from: Oldjim
I have to seriously question the logic of this
Inefficient and over employment means cost increases so how will that bring prices down.
.... wind farms ...Build the new power stations ...Build and maintain rapid response power stations...
To add look at the price comparison

Jim, you talk generally about electricity then show a comparison graph for gas prices  Lips are sealed

It also comes from Ofgem. Ofgem, OFT, Ofcom.. they're all on the side of business not the customer. They'd have an outcry on their hands if they admitted our prices are some of the highest around. Remember the OFT saying they found no evidence of price fixing in the motoring fuel market? - Just weeks later offices across europe got raided after tipoffs for just that. Strangely our media have completely lost wind of that.
Go figure!
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
VileReynard
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Re: Energy Prices

Quotations from energy companies are rather biased.
It's only a 14 month price suspension after all.
It's a bit like when the minimum wage was introduced - all sorts of dire consequences were predicted for businesses.
Didn't happen.

Glenn
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Registered: 12-02-2013

Re: Energy Prices

The only way we can address energy needs in a realistic way is to build Thorium LFTR Molten Salt Reactors, it was abandoned back when nuclear began because it can't produce weapons grade material.
Thorium is abundant and it's literally everywhere, so no wars would ever be fought over supply and we'll never run out of it.Thorium LFTR reactors are walk away safe, unlike the reactors we've been lumped with since the start of nuclear.Thorium LFTR reactors don't produce any nuclear waste and we can use these reactors to burn and get rid of all the nuclear waste we already have.
I seriously recommend watching this video about it and you'll be amazed that we haven't been using this technology all along.The Chinese are building them now based on the research and knowledge we created long ago...if we don't get in on this we'll be very much left behind.


We don't have time to mess about with the ridiculous and inadequate so called renewable wind/solar energy.To power a civilisation Thorium is the only way forward...and there is no reason not to do it.All this carbon tax nonsense is a totalitarian lie and a scam of monumental proportions...designed for absolute control and to take us back centuries into a horrible feudal world.
The Weinberg Foundation (named after the inventor of Thorium Reactors) is a British foundation that is trying to get us to build these reactors in the UK.
http://www.the-weinberg-foundation.org/
Currently our politicians are in the way of progress that will literally change our world...we can also use these reactors to create our own petrol and diesel fuel for vehicles...no more worries about oil supplies or middle eastern oil for that matter.
Clean, extremely cheap, abundant energy is already available...we just have to build the reactors.
Smiley
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Re: Energy Prices

Quote from: Glenn
Clean, extremely cheap, abundant energy is already available...we just have to build the reactors.

And find a way for the rich and the government to keep you spending your money on them.. they'll never let it work unless there is something in it for them.
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
nanotm
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Re: Energy Prices

given that 3 out of the so called big six suppliers operating in the uk are state owned operators (foreign state owned that is) we are actually subsidising cheaper energy prices in there home nations ...
of course the real problems are that in order to push energy prices down we would need to also re nationalise everything else before we could come up with a centralised strategy for improvement, it would cost so much money to enact, require the uk to be a sole state unaffiliated with any other (not any part of Europe's political landscape and not beholden to there rules)  need a co-ordinated development strategy that can only come from owning all parts of the related businesses, change planning laws to prevent anything being blocked on green /eco reasons(because delays would bankrupt the nation completely) 
and finally we would need stores of gas to last us through the transition period of about 2 years,
in all reality regulation of prices so that companies made zero profit from random number generators ....for instance gas is metered in volume at the premises yet the bills always charge it in kilowatt hours, we only have the word of British gas that the calorific value is indeed correct (it never is according to reports from ofgem who since 2007 have been powerless to do anything to the companies without consent of the industry and ministers....) 
the way to stop the problem is to all adopt a micro effluent based gas brewer (yes just like the giant sized thing in Norway) to power our homes power heat and light requirements, with waste product providing fertiliser Smiley
clearly there is no desire to invest in such things on and industry level .....
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
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Re: Energy Prices

I have built, CCGT (Gas Fired), heavy fuel, Hydro, Nuclear, CHP, Landfill gas generators, mines gas generators etc etc.  Roll eyes
but I am here in Saudi Arabia building a 2800MW Rankine Cycle steam generation plant using heavy fuel and crude oil  because Britain is not building anything I can work on. The inmates have taken over the asylum!  Crazy
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VileReynard
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Re: Energy Prices

Why are you generating steam?