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Defending yourself against pirates - is force justified?

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Defending yourself against pirates - is force justified?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/10195838.stm
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
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33 REPLIES
pierre_pierre
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Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: Defending yourself against pirates - is force justified?

lets hope those dam yanks dont stick the oar in this time
after all whats a pipe against machine guns on the end of a rope in international waters - piracy
itsme
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Re: Defending yourself against pirates - is force justified?

Bit of a lost to tie up the poll with the News item. Are you saying the Israelis forces are the pirates and those on board were right to use guns?
pierre_pierre
Grafter
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Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: Defending yourself against pirates - is force justified?

I thought that nine Israel raiders were hurt by being hit by pipe and nineteen lawfull people on the high seas in international waters were shot dead by borders Angry Angry
Community Veteran
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Re: Defending yourself against pirates - is force justified?

Fully armed forces boarded a ship in international waters - no two ways about it, that's piracy.
Those on board the ship attempted to defend themselves using pipes etc. - were they justified in using force when attempting to defend the ship?
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
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nadger
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Re: Defending yourself against pirates - is force justified?

The Israelis seem to think they've got the right to behave exactly as they like.
It's one thing boarding a boat in international waters when it's known to be smuggling drugs but this wasn't the case so, imho, it was piracy.
Whether the people on the boats were wise to try and defend against crack Israeli commandos is debatable albeit they had right on their side.
It would be nice to, for once, see the USA condemn Israel and forget that there are more Jews in New York than Tel Aviv.
David_W
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Re: Defending yourself against pirates - is force justified?

Very much so, in fact it's more than piracy it is an act of war against the registered nations of the ships involved.  Piracy in the old days was government sponsored with letters of marque, these days it's small groups of people with guns, this was an military intervention by a state in international waters against vessels of another state, an act of war.
What will be done about it?  A bit of huffing and puffing from the EU/US and that's it.  No politician can afford to come out and speak against Israel without being condemned as anti-Semitic, the Jewish wossnames in the US are very powerful and have the ears of lots of people in government so the US will just shake their head and go "tut tut" whilst not doing anything about it.
Israel has nuclear weapons and is conducting an illegal occupation, terrorist activity, bombing innocent civilians, children, schools, hospitals, even UN "safe houses" but no one does a thing yet condemn every other day Iran and say they shouldn't have nukes.  I don't see Iran going out to sea and murdering people on boats in international waters to prevent aid from reaching people who Iran are terrorising.
The problem is partly our own making, when Hamas were elected in Palestine the EU said "hell no" and turned their back on a democratically elected party because we didn't like them.  We should have stood up and backed Hamas, not turned away from people who really need our help.  Okay, maybe Hamas are not very nice, maybe they do have links to terrorists, but the Israeli government is following state sponsored terrorism, the international community is sitting back and watching whilst Israel ignores the human rights, commits war crimes and acts of terror, it's time that stopped, it's time the governments in the west started pushing for sanctions against Israel until they stop committing acts of war and terror.  We're talking about a country that faked UK passports to assassinate someone.
VileReynard
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Re: Defending yourself against pirates - is force justified?

Anyway, its not as if the Gaza strip has oil is it?

Community Veteran
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Re: Defending yourself against pirates - is force justified?

The Israelis get away with this behaviour time and time again.  It's about time the rest of the world stood up to them.  Sanctions should be imposed on them immediately.  Yes, the Jewish lobby in the US is a powerful one but the Obama administration is not as strong in its support as previous ones. They need to apply pressure on Israel. 
Bojangles
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Re: Defending yourself against pirates - is force justified?

Perfectly justifiable but unwise when they have guns and you have pipes. The West is always hesitant to denounce anything like this as very influential jews are always connected to the governments. Some jews have this idea that Israel needs to be able to exert power to prevent persecution like the holocaust happening again but behaviour like this will only leads to further unfavour.
VileReynard
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Re: Defending yourself against pirates - is force justified?

You'd think that a group of people who had been through a holocaust (in living memory) would be less inclined to extreme savagery.
Especially as they stole were given a country with a pre-existing native population.

itsme
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Re: Defending yourself against pirates - is force justified?

It will only start to be resovled when the Worldwide Jewish community start to condemn Isrealis actions
Community Veteran
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Re: Defending yourself against pirates - is force justified?

I saw footage this morning of the "charity and aid workers" beating the Israeli solders with iron bars and throwing them overboard.
I seem to recall when there has been blockades in the past, e.g. Iraq, that ships heading there would be boarded by the respective Navies to search them using appropriate force where necessary. 
Community Veteran
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Re: Defending yourself against pirates - is force justified?

Were they not blockades sanctioned by the UN?
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
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Community Veteran
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Re: Defending yourself against pirates - is force justified?

Yes I think you are right, they were.
Raises the question that if the UN pass a resolution then it is OK to do this sort of thing.
Of course there are examples of countries invading other countries without full UN support