cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Crimea/Ukraine

Community Veteran
Posts: 16,848
Thanks: 1,133
Fixes: 13
Registered: 06-11-2007

Crimea/Ukraine

So, according to BBC news at 6pm.... 97% of the people of Crimea have voted to join the Russian Federation.... yet the European and American leaders declare it an illegal vote and strongly object, issuing sanctions against top officials, and reducing/removingv/restricting trade deals.  Also the Ukraine President stated that "Crimea, was, is, and always will be part of Ukraine"....

What would these same "leaders" do if...... Gibraltar, or The Falklands decide they want to be ruled by Spain or Argentina..  
would we have to go to war to sort it out, because they thought the referendums were illegal?
19 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 26,378
Thanks: 634
Fixes: 8
Registered: 10-04-2007

Re: Crimea/Ukraine

97% of people in Crimea did not vote to join the Russian Federation. It was 97% of those that voted. Without a No option on the ballot paper that's hardly surprising.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,251
Thanks: 937
Fixes: 56
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: Crimea/Ukraine

The options were
Join Russia
Go independent
There wasn't an option for staying in Ukraine
However my opinion is that the EU have been stirring it in trying to drag the Ukraine into the EU and away from the  Russian sphere of influence
Take this as a comparable situation
Russia is agitating for Mexico to join the Russia trading block - imagine the USA response
This is a very interesting essay on the subject http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/ukraine-crisis-is-the-west-trying-to-upset-the-russ...
PowerLee
Rising Star
Posts: 543
Thanks: 12
Registered: 12-03-2013

Re: Crimea/Ukraine

Once again the UK will get dragged in to someone else's problem thanks to us being the USA's lapdog  Roll eyes

TORPC
Grafter
Posts: 5,163
Registered: 08-12-2013

Re: Crimea/Ukraine

Lapdog =====> SLAVERY
PitchBlack
Grafter
Posts: 301
Registered: 10-01-2014

Re: Crimea/Ukraine

For those of you who can, watch RT news, it is amazing what is happening. Ukraine showing Russian tanks ready to invade, when actually it is footage of Russian tanks doing manoeuvres 140 Km from the border. Far right Neo Nazi Ukrainians pulling Russian speaking Ukrainians off buses and beating them with sticks and metal bars. Showing what are supposed to be Russian troops storming cities, when they are Russian speaking Ukrainians who are just trying to keep the peace. There is none of this shown on any western news.
The Neo Nazis are also threatening to use nuclear devices to blow up the Russian pipelines that supply countries in the EU and run through Ukraine.
I hate getting involved in politics on forums as it always leads to arguments, but as I understand it 85 % of the people voted in Crimea and of those 85%, 96.7% voted to go with Russia.
Ukrainian tanks on trains heading for the border, driving through streets. Snipers in buildings shooting both Ukrainian and Russian speaking Ukrainians that they claim to have on tape the new Ukrainian government sanctioning.

RT is a Russian based news service so they are probably only showing the Russian side, but it helps to get a balanced perspective of what is really happening.
Community Veteran
Posts: 13,923
Thanks: 515
Fixes: 7
Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: Crimea/Ukraine

If you ask me I think it's all a load of *****x. We and the EU should stay out of all of it. No meddling, no stirring, no enticing. Just let the Ukranians and the Crimeans decide amongst themselves what they want to do.
On a slightly off topic but related note, why does anyone have to be ruled by a government anyway? I don't want to be ruled by one but I am by force so I have to live with it. Why must this be the case? I wasn't offered the choice at birth.
Can I vote to be independent? Can I go to Dover and claim asylum on the grounds of political persecution? Actually seeing as this is the EU and we're all supposed to have the same rights, can I go to Calais and claim asylum there?
Everything political in the world is wrong. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the theory of politics, democracy and the free world but it always ends up being infiltrated by the rich, powerful and those on the take who then force their will on the nation that is supposedly part of the free world Crazy
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
nanotm
Pro
Posts: 5,674
Thanks: 109
Fixes: 1
Registered: 11-02-2013

Re: Crimea/Ukraine

Quote from: PitchBlack

RT is a Russian based news service so they are probably only showing the Russian side, but it helps to get a balanced perspective of what is really happening.


that's like saying spitting image was an accurate news report,
Russian tv can be a far more harsh realistic view of things however since they managed to report for 15 years on Chechnya as being nothing more than peacekeeping Russian troops who were being hampered in bringing order by terrorists and singularly failing to report on any of the atrocities the troops were committing (and they did the same in the Balkan conflict) they don't actually have any credibility.
in fact I'd go so far as to suggest that since western media isn't all working on the same film set that RT must be using one, the satellite pics of the area showed the "manoeuvres area" as being less than 50 km from the border and I wont discuss the politics of the place because its blatantly obvious that the globe is attempting to restart the cold war in order bolster the various failing economies
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
TORPC
Grafter
Posts: 5,163
Registered: 08-12-2013

Re: Crimea/Ukraine

OMGoodness
That brings back memories (spitting image indeed) Wink
I had forgotten about them, thank you for the nostalgic moment, they should bring it back as it was entertaining (at least back then) Smiley
Community Veteran
Posts: 7,923
Thanks: 600
Fixes: 8
Registered: 02-08-2007

Re: Crimea/Ukraine

Quote from: 7up
If you ask me I think it's all a load of *****x. We and the EU should stay out of all of it. No meddling, no stirring, no enticing. Just let the Ukranians and the Crimeans decide amongst themselves what they want to do.
On a slightly off topic but related note, why does anyone have to be ruled by a government anyway? I don't want to be ruled by one but I am by force so I have to live with it. Why must this be the case? I wasn't offered the choice at birth.
Can I vote to be independent? Can I go to Dover and claim asylum on the grounds of political persecution? Actually seeing as this is the EU and we're all supposed to have the same rights, can I go to Calais and claim asylum there?
Everything political in the world is wrong. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the theory of politics, democracy and the free world but it always ends up being infiltrated by the rich, powerful and those on the take who then force their will on the nation that is supposedly part of the free world Crazy
Certainly agree with your first sentence, we should keep out of it, the situation is far more complex than news reports would have you believe and such reports are usually biased.
On your second point I am not so sure, the alternative to a Government is a dictator and we have seen plenty of examples of what happens when power lies with one person. So if you do not want a government or a dictator then what's the alternative.?
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,307
Thanks: 86
Fixes: 3
Registered: 08-01-2008

Re: Crimea/Ukraine

Have you seen the size of the Russian army?  I think we should leave it for 'others' to sort out.
Call me 'w23'
At any given moment in the universe many things happen. Coincidence is a matter of how close these events are in space, time and relationship.
Opinions expressed in forum posts are those of the poster, others may have different views.
PitchBlack
Grafter
Posts: 301
Registered: 10-01-2014

Re: Crimea/Ukraine

Quote from: nanotm
that's like saying spitting image was an accurate news report,

Unfortunately I was out of the country in the 80's and 90's, so I never had the pleasure of watching spitting image, although I have seen clips of it on various award programmes, and the analogy of comparing spitting image with the Russian news is spot on though nanotm, I guess next you will be telling me that the Malaysian airliner is in the middle of the ocean after having landed on an aircraft carrier.  Grin
Community Veteran
Posts: 26,378
Thanks: 634
Fixes: 8
Registered: 10-04-2007

Re: Crimea/Ukraine

You could try reading about what is happening on a Ukranian news website: http://tsn.ua/
Well you could if it wasn't for this:
C:\Users\John>tracert tsn.ua
Tracing route to tsn.ua [91.218.213.66]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
  1    <1 ms    1 ms    1 ms  tg582 [192.168.1.254]
  2    21 ms    23 ms    25 ms  lo0-central10.pcl-ag03.plus.net [195.166.128.184]
  3    21 ms    20 ms    21 ms  link-b-central10.pcl-gw02.plus.net [212.159.2.170]
  4    22 ms    20 ms    21 ms  xe-10-2-0.pcl-cr02.plus.net [212.159.0.202]
  5    35 ms    21 ms    33 ms  ae2.pcl-cr01.plus.net [195.166.129.6]
  6    21 ms    19 ms    20 ms  ae1.ptw-cr01.plus.net [195.166.129.0]
  7    21 ms    21 ms    28 ms  linx-224.retn.net [195.66.224.193]
  8    65 ms    65 ms    65 ms  ae17-3.RT.NTL.KIV.UA.retn.net [87.245.233.197]
  9    *        *        *    Request timed out.

The word is that it routes via Russia so no prizes for guessing what the problem is!
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
PitchBlack
Grafter
Posts: 301
Registered: 10-01-2014

Re: Crimea/Ukraine

Found this, 1000 years of European borders changing.
http://loiter.co/v/watch-as-1000years-of-european-boarders-change/
nanotm
Pro
Posts: 5,674
Thanks: 109
Fixes: 1
Registered: 11-02-2013

Re: Crimea/Ukraine

Quote from: PitchBlack
the Malaysian airliner is in the middle of the ocean after having landed on an aircraft carrier.  Grin

why would I try telling you that ?
there's a lot of possibilities on what happened to that flight the most likely being that it exited radar coverage and re-entered it shadowing something small and proceeded to land in a remote airstrip whereupon the prisoners were either split up and bussed out to various organisations or possibly executed, there's a possibility the plane was taken on a suicide mission to explore the deep and then there's the very slim possibility that they were secured inside a makeshift holding facility that was pre staged ready for the event complete with the huge catering requirements....
however that still doesn't detract from the fact the state broadcasting in Russia is pushing the agenda of the politburo just as it has done since the first broadcast that was made from it, and contains about as much contextually factual information as "The Sun"  or indeed "screws of the world"
and the whole scripted and carefully stage managed information drip-feed in both western and eastern hemispheres is very much akin to that orchestrated when the iron curtain almost collapsed during the run up to the Cuban missile crisis, what happened during the so called crisis and what followed on from it...
the two largest military nations in the globe like to cock a leg and take a leak once in a while to mark there territory and show that they have the means without actually pulling the trigger and having a real  fight, something that does all the related economies a power of good and provides the means necessary to continue life as we know it.
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you