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Covert Speed Traps

Community Veteran
Posts: 19,099
Thanks: 434
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Covert Speed Traps

A friend of mine sent me these links -
http://tinyurl.com/6coa7l
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7322582.stm
www.wrexhamleader.co.uk/news/Horse-box-speed-camera-is.3940888.jp
Also this, they were presumeably out in a horsebox Angry
http://tinyurl.com/5nxwkx
This is [censored] disgusting. No wonder the public won't co-operate with the police.
9 REPLIES
geewizz
Grafter
Posts: 1,125
Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: Covert Speed Traps

As I was reading this, a police car screamed past my house with sirens and lights. It was closely followed by a fire engine. I know where they will be heading and I can make a good guess at what they will find when they get there.
You see, I live on a stretch of road which is very easy to navigate if you drive with due care and you keep your speed down. It has a few tight corners and a few blind corners and summits.
It's bank holiday Monday and someone who doesn't know the area has probably taken a bend too fast or decided to overtake when they couldn't fully anticipate the road ahead. The chances are that at least one vehicle will be wrapped around a tree, and it's also likely that the tree will already have bunches of flowers tied to it.
Speed cameras slow people down. The fear of being caught speeding is a deterrent. If motorists don't know where the speed cameras are then they might not break the speed limits. I think we would all be a bit safer then.
I'm all for trapping speeding motorists. The speed limits are there for the greater good, NOT to inconvenience speed merchants. Go and play on a race track if you want to experience speed. I don't want to meet you coming off a bend on my side of the road.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,099
Thanks: 434
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Covert Speed Traps

Then what you need is a big bright yellow gatso camera at your black-spot. The whole idea of VISIBLE cameras is to slow traffic where it will improve road safety. A covert camera will not slow down the traffic. OK you'll catch a few speeders, but it's nothing more than a government cash cow. Speed per se is not the cause of accidents. It's speed in the wrong places and under the wrong conditions that's the problem.
Edit: to correct typo. Replace 'the' with 'to'.
geewizz
Grafter
Posts: 1,125
Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: Covert Speed Traps

Let me address your post in the order you presented it.
I don't need a speed camera.
I don't have an accident blackspot.
The road I was referring to is approximately 7 miles long, so a camera would be visible to road users for a very short period of that stretch.
The use of covert cameras is a deterrent to speeding. The cameras are only undercover for a short period of time before they become highly visible.
It's not about "catching a few speeders". That is only a means to an end. It's about education.
You're right, speed is not the cause of accidents. However, that's not an good enough reason to ignore speed limits. Speed is a major contributing factor to the cause of many accidents and, crucially, speed is a factor of momentum. It's the increase in momentum which causes the increase in the likelihood and severity of injuries.
The same police officers who hold the speed guns are the ones who are often first on the scene of road traffic collisions. What they and the other emergency responders have to deal with in a high speed collision, now that is disgusting.
I have refrained from posting any photographs.
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Re: Covert Speed Traps

Quote from: Anotherone
The whole idea of VISIBLE cameras is the slow traffic where it will improve road safety.

Really Shocked Roll eyes
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Product of the Tyrell Corporation
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Registered: 06-11-2007

Re: Covert Speed Traps

Quote

It's the increase in momentum which causes the increase in the likelihood and severity of injuries.

I thought it was the sudden decrease in momentum at the point of impact that caused the injuries. Undecided
geewizz
Grafter
Posts: 1,125
Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: Covert Speed Traps

Yes. That does not conflict with what I posted and what you quoted.
mcgurka
Grafter
Posts: 764
Registered: 09-10-2007

Re: Covert Speed Traps

Yes, agreed with shutter on this one, it is the sudden decrease, similar to falling off a building.. its the sudden stop at the bottom thats the bugger!
Personally, I detest speed cameras... mostly the ones on the A9 since its pretty difficult to drive when some moron decides he wants to brake to 50, just to be sure, even though its a 70 zone.
Now, correct me if im wrong, but surely sudden harsh braking on a busy carrigeway is as likely, if not moreso to cause an accident?
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,099
Thanks: 434
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Covert Speed Traps

Quote from: geewizz
As I was reading this, a police car screamed past my house with sirens and lights. It was closely followed by a fire engine. I know where they will be heading and I can make a good guess at what they will find when they get there.

Your phraseology suggests it's a regular event and there are regular accidents at a particular spot.
Quote from: geewizz
You see, I live on a stretch of road which is very easy to navigate if you drive with due care and you keep your speed down. It has a few tight corners and a few blind corners and summits.

So what's the speed limit on this stretch of road? Sounds to me that's it's too high in certain spots and the responsible thing to do would be campaigning your local authority for lower speed limits in the appropriate places, along with flashing speed limit signs just like we did a short while ago on our stretch of the A46.
Quote from: geewizz
It's bank holiday Monday and someone who doesn't know the area has probably taken a bend too fast or decided to overtake when they couldn't fully anticipate the road ahead. The chances are that at least one vehicle will be wrapped around a tree, and it's also likely that the tree will already have bunches of flowers tied to it.
Speed cameras slow people down. The fear of being caught speeding is a deterrent.

All the more reason for highly visible cameras (ie. more than one if need be). It slows ALL the traffic down, although you'll still get the odd impatient idiot who deserves to get caught before they kill someone, if they don't end up killing themselves.
Quote from: geewizz
If motorists don't know where the speed cameras are then they might not break the speed limits. I think we would all be a bit safer then.
I'm all for trapping speeding motorists. The speed limits are there for the greater good, NOT to inconvenience speed merchants.

It sounds like you either don't drive or not more than a few yards a couple of times a year, otherwise you would know that this is just not true. There are too many idiots on the road who will speed irrespective of conditions (road & weather) and a visible camera will deter most of them. Also a speed limit (if appropriate) SHOULD inconvenience speed merchants (by which I mean the morons of death who will drive above every speed limit).
Quote from: geewizz
Go and play on a race track if you want to experience speed. I don't want to meet you coming off a bend on my side of the road.

I would NEVER advocate the use of public roads as a race track, nor did my post imply that. And even on a race track, that is nowhere to "play". I hope it in the realms of insignificance that I were ever likely to meet you (or anyone else) coming off the road on a bend. I would hope that with all the years of experience I do not take risks that would put me in that situation.
Quote from: geewizz
The use of covert cameras is a deterrent to speeding. The cameras are only undercover for a short period of time before they become highly visible.

As previously stated, I disagree. A covert camera is not a deterrent and by definition CANNOT be highly visible.
Quote from: geewizz
It's about education.
You're right, speed is not the cause of accidents.

It IS about education. One point being a visible speed camera educates a driver that there is an accident black spot here, do not speed.
I did not say "speed is not the cause of accidents". There are many cases where it clearly is. Speed under the wrong circumstances (even 20mph) can be the cause of accidents.
Quote from: Strat
Quote from: Anotherone
The whole idea of VISIBLE cameras is the slow traffic where it will improve road safety.

Really Shocked Roll eyes

Sorry for the typo, see my edit to my post above. I hope you didn't mean anything else. Most drivers I know double check their speed if they see a speed camera, as do I, I hope you do too.
Quote from: geewizz
The same police officers who hold the speed guns are the ones who are often first on the scene of road traffic collisions. What they and the other emergency responders have to deal with in a high speed collision, now that is disgusting.
I have refrained from posting any photographs.

I would say that the majority of people posting in PN forums are intelligent enough that they don't need to be lectured about the obvious. I'm glad you've been responsible enough not to post any photos. 1) It might cause great offense and upset to some viewing this post 2) I don't doubt that I've either seen photos or reality as bad as you might post. In any event it's not disgusting, it's sickening and stomach churning!
May I say that if you or anyone you know has been the victim in an accident as a result of speeding, you have my sincere sympathy.
Also, anyone caught speeding by a visible speed camera or a following police car deserves their speed ticket for "driving without due care & attention" if nothing else.
The purpose of my original post was not because I believe in reckless speeding. Speed is no longer the major cause of the majority of accidents (as demonstrated by accident figures) and I truly believe that the use of covert speed cameras will not improve road safety and will certainly not endear the majority of the public to co-operate with the police, and the majority of posts I have seen elsewhere hold similar views.
nadger
Rising Star
Posts: 4,498
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Registered: 13-04-2007

Re: Covert Speed Traps

One thing I find really effective are the flashing " Slow down, **mph" signs that one sees more of these days.
There have always been covert speed traps - they were around well before any form of speed camera appeared.
Some of us also remember the days when the police had to clock you, in a following vehicle, for 2 tenths of a mile before giving a speeding ticket.
To the annoyance of others I obey speed limits - I'd hate to lose my 50 odd year clean licence this late in the day.
Being able to drive a car is a privilege and not a right imho.