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Corporal Punishment

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Corporal Punishment

Just to ask the question 'Was it wrong to stop corporal punishment in schools' is enough to invite criticism but many of you on this forum will have first hand experience of the effect of a slipper or cane on your hand or other parts of your body.

Most people you speak to say things like,' It did me no harm' and I am not aware of anyones life being damaged by legitimate use of corporal punishment at the time it was legal.

It has been suggested that those who were subject to corporal punishment were affected in a detrimental way, so if you were on the receiving end do you think that is true.

Could I stress this topic is how the average child would have been punished in past times it is not about the abuse we hear about in the press and which quite rightly those who are guilty are ending up in jail.

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Minivanman
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Re: Corporal Punishment

As a late 40s baby boomer, try corporal punishment from an ex army sergeant.

I was more than once at the wrong end of my old dads army belt and had such a backhander from him another time that he nearly broke my nose - 'luckily' I only suffered from a floor full of blood which in silence my mum had to clear up.

School was little better at times with one particular sadist of a teacher caning me so hard with a stick that he 'wet his pants'. Not true? Well I guess you had to be there. Beating prior to that came from a vicar of all people who was the head of the children's home we were in and who caned both myself and my little brother across our bare legs (he still remembers it) for guess what, singing outside of Church on a Sunday - and folks wonder why I'm a life long atheist, and why I never ever laid a finger on my own kids - although they were never quite sure I wouldn't truth be told.

So yes it did affect me, but not in a detrimental way. Why carry the anger, it changes nothing.

All views expressed are my own but you can express them too if you want to be right about everything like I am.
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Re: Corporal Punishment

I went to a grammar school run by the De La Salle brothers. It was very strict for the time I was there but discipline and self-respect was high. We had either the cane or the leather strap fior corporal punishment. Both stung a little but was soon over but not many went back for a second helping. One teacher did break his cane on me - I couldn't help laughing along with the rest of the class. One teacher did use the slipper called 'Else'. Class behave... or Else Wink

 

There was one brother who seemed to revel in handing out the cane or strap and used to go beetroot red with anger - that was wrong. But, in general I don't think it did me any harm and my life-long friend from the same school says exactly the same.

 

The school went comprehensive soon after I left and corporal punishment was banned. Was it coincidence that discipline declined along with self-esteem and exam results?

 

As for punishing my daughter my golden rule was never to do it in anger but to wait till I have cooled down before admonishing her. The only caveat was when she could have caused herself danger or to those around her.

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Re: Corporal Punishment

Things seemed a hell of a lot more disciplined back in the day. Kids seem to know exactly how to play the system now to cause the most disruption with little or no repercussions for themselves.

But I did think the headmaster was enjoying himself a little too much when he was caning me. He was wrong and proved to be wrong but would always quote "it was against school rules" even when it made no sense. He could never be wrong even when he was.

Anyway with decent teachers corporal punishment worked and was accepted as the right way by both parents and children.

 

Steve
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Re: Corporal Punishment

I only got the belt once at school, wasn't really for me.

LordFox
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Re: Corporal Punishment

I was caned (very vigorously!) only once at school; I was generally well behaved enough to avoid it. The caning was because for the first time I actually defended myself well against a serious bully and won. The bully was a son of one of the teachers, who was the one who literally dragged me to the head's office. That bully, who was known throughout the school and by parents for how he behaved, was never once punished for what he did to anyone.

 

How did it effect me? Well, I would still happily rip the head to pieces, literally, if he hadn't died of a heart attack decades ago. Served the you-know-what right. It taught me that some people are nasty, violent, corrupt  scum and many others are cowards for letting it go on. It lowered my opinion of my 'fellow man' greatly, and that has lasted.

 

I'm not against corporal punishment in itself, but the people in power who would employ it are generally more deserving of it than their victims.

nanotm
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Re: Corporal Punishment

we would often get a ruler or a spoon on across the hand the dunce cap or the cane and one of the sadists at church school used to perform a knuckle run down your spine or just grab you by the ear... once I moved up to secondary school the cane was phased out in my 3rd year and I was lucky enough to only get it twice before then, oh and we had teachers that would lobb the black board rubber or cricket /softballs at your head or bits of chalk or other hard small things... 

 a few times I deserved it and a few times I didn't but I really couldn't care less about it in later life, I would say it had an overall positive effect on class decorum and when it was no longer an option it was apparent that most teachers lost control because they had nothing to deter disruptive behaviour....

 

if anything I would say its long overdue a return, and not just in schools, a flogging or 20 would probably fix a fair amount of fecklessness in wider society far better than the clearly failed social experiment that's been going on for the last few decades ....

just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
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Re: Corporal Punishment


nanotm wrote:

a flogging or 20 would probably fix a fair amount of fecklessness in wider society far better than the clearly failed social experiment that's been going on for the last few decades ....


A choice of a public flogging instead of a short time inside for petty thieves and non violent muggers. A chance for the public to see these people as snivelling wretches and not the bogey men they think they are.

Works for me. I would vote for that. It could also be a recycling plus. Rotten tomatoes on sale at the punishment site. Proceeds to charity.

 

nadger
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Re: Corporal Punishment

I recall getting cane, across rear, at grammar school around 1950.

Reason - climbing over wall into next door girl's school Thumbs Up

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Re: Corporal Punishment

Some very interesting answers in these posts. What happened to you is still very clear in your memories despite it happening all those years ago.

Most of the teachers at our secondary school were ok but there were a couple of exceptions one being a PT instructor who clearly took a delight in using a slipper.

Everyone got the same treatment and it could be just as bad watching someone getting punished as getting it yourself as you knew what they were going through.

Not uncommon to be punished for something someone else did but it was regarded as the done thing not to tell on someone

What happens these days is detention or in some cases expulsion but is that really a good alternative  ?

nanotm
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Re: Corporal Punishment

well we had detentions as well but you got the physical punishment on the spot...

speaking on a personal basis I have to say its clear that they told us how to behave, they warned us what the consequences were for misbehaving and then delivered the reinforcement of the rules and coupled that with the punishment (in my case I got the cane for disrupting a lesson and then forced to endure an extra 2 hours of detention in the subject after school) my school normally did detentions during lunch breaks or on weekends but occasionally it would schedule you in for an afterschool but it was supposed to get parental consent for them in advance (like many I suspect we didn't have a phone so I just forged the signature on the forms and told the old farts I  was doing something else) 

 

our school didn't have much in the way of bullying though, that really started after the cane was outlawed and the teachers no longer had any way to enforce discipline, oh sure there was always the kid trying to steal your dinner money or pinching /tripping you in the corridor but it was low level stuff because if they got caught then it was off to borstal for a minimum of 3 months, and no body wanted to end up there .......

 

actually  would say the elimination of corporal punishment had an immediate verifiable bad effect on moral standards discipline and anti bullying initiatives.....

 

 

 

 

just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
2u2me
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Re: Corporal Punishment

Interesting about the "bulling" where I was brought up there where plenty of bully's, I found though that if you physically stuck up for yourself you may get a bloodied nose, but you soon gained respect. 

Steve
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Re: Corporal Punishment

I got my fair share of detention and like lines I hated it. Mostly I was kept in 45 min after school and I would catch up with my lines while I was at it. I loved primary, it was the big school that changed me and not for the better I became a bit of a pain in the bum.
nanotm
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Re: Corporal Punishment


2u2me wrote:

Interesting about the "bulling" where I was brought up there where plenty of bully's, I found though that if you physically stuck up for yourself you may get a bloodied nose, but you soon gained respect. 


yeah but I lived on a farm and my nearest neighbours were over a mile away, the big school was over 6 miles away and the only bullying was on the school grounds, when corporal punishment disappeared what had been indifferent cliques became hostile gangs and so long as they stuck to rampaging around outside the classrooms and corridors nothing was done about it, indeed where there had been teachers during the days of corporal punishment that would sit around watching suddenly they were hidden in side the staff room..... 

 

once they became powerless the teachers were the victims of bullying just as much as the missfits were and classroom decorum went up in a puff of smoke...

 

stupid thing is during the time I was at the school there was maybe 1 person cained or sent to borstal a year but just the knowledge of it being possible was enough to keep folks in line, as soon as it disappeared everything changed, nobody cared about getting suspended or expelled, detentions after school were only enforceable with parental consent (so most people didn't bother to turn up) and control was taken away from those who were supposed to be in charge

 

 

just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
Steve
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Re: Corporal Punishment

One time I had to stand outside the deputy headmasters room. Just stand there, he had me doing it while everyone including him was having their lunch. The headmaster came along and asked how long I had been there and if I had anything to eat. When I told him I'm missing lunch he sent me to get something to eat. Hated that deputy head. Mr brown.