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Coronavirus

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Community Veteran
Posts: 19,412
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Registered: ‎12-08-2007

Re: Coronavirus

Spain has banned all flights. Some aircraft have been turned round mid-air and have returned to UK.

.

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Community Veteran
Posts: 6,712
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Registered: ‎23-09-2010

Re: Coronavirus

That report from China a few days ago was a bit odd. It was said someone that had fully recovered from the virus had been retested and was still showing positive.

Hasn't been confirmed but maybe it's just something about the test. Or maybe there's still something else about this virus we don't understand yet.

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Hero
Posts: 4,701
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Registered: ‎31-07-2007

Re: Coronavirus

Much understatedly, the World has a giant problem before it, yet I cannot help musing the possibility that  statistics, as bandied around by the media, are making our perceptions worse. For one thing, in the UK 2018  61.6K died from all causes of a population- some  66.4M= .93%.Of those 10.4% were over 80.

My understanding is that the experts suggest 70% of that 66.4M will fall ill; the overall mortality will be 1.45%, but for the over 80s 14.58%. At 70% of the total population these become <1.0% and 10.21%.

They are certainly very serious indeed, but can we dismiss the thought that the complete toll may be less, especially in the most senior, because many would normally have died of something else they suffered from?

I admit to being a statistics  rocking horse, and my thoughts  questionable or rubbish.

No one has to agree with my opinion, but in the time I have left a miracle would be nice.
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Moderator
Moderator
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Registered: ‎14-04-2007

Re: Coronavirus

My 14 year old grandson's school trip to Spain has been cancelled....disappointed.

There is talk of his school being closed....happy.

There is talk of his schooling to continue in full on-line....disappointed.

 

Like I said to him. "You win some, you lose some".

Customer and Forum Moderator. Windows 10 Firefox 74.0 (64-bit)

Life is tough enough without adding Linux into the mix.
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Community Veteran
Posts: 19,412
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Registered: ‎12-08-2007

Re: Coronavirus

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Community Veteran
Posts: 10,057
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Registered: ‎02-08-2007

Re: Coronavirus

This situation also raises a interesting ethical problem for some people.

As medical resources in terms of staff and bed spaces get past a critical point decisions already appear to have been reached regarding the priority of treatments and those over a certain age being regarded as lower on the list or indeed not even put on the list as critical care for younger people should take priority, by critical care that means care for all conditions not necessarily linked to the virus.

Now a number of elderly people may well agree that younger people be treated as a priority even though it could be to their detriment but this conflicts with medical ethics in which all people should be treated equally irrespective of age or other matters.

worth thinking about.

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Seasoned Champion
Posts: 1,570
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Registered: ‎21-11-2018

Re: Coronavirus

Would not be a medical ethicist for any money,  it is bad enough when things are going well and even then life and death decisions need to be made almost daily ( cost / benefit of treatment still has to be considered,  there is not a bottomless pocket of money available ), but in times of stress on the health system then decisions have to be made on the use of resources that are overwhelmed by the number of patients requiring life saving treatment,  and that is after all elective operations and other treatment for non-life threatening conditions has been suspended.  It would be impossible for health services to keep enough intensive care facilities available for the worst case scenarios,  it would mean tying up billions and billions in facilities and expensive equipment that may never get used,  also staff are needed and they tend to be highly qualified people ( its all a bit like the reason UK never has enough snowploughs and gritters when we get a bad winter, local councils cannot justify spending on expensive kit that is only needed for a few weeks every 10 to 15 years ).

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All Star
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Registered: ‎26-01-2019

Re: Coronavirus

Looks like are plans re going to change! Was going to visit a cousin in Essex in a couple of weeks time from Yorkshur but as he is over 80 and i am 72 with bad heart and copd have decided to cancel and stay home In April some friends from around the country were coming and we were all going to stay in York but that too looks like it will be cancelled. Then in May a cousin is supposed to be coming from USA, We will have to see as its all booked if that has to be cancelled.

@Strat Looks a bit like lose-lose at the moment but we will all end up being still alive (hopefully) and be able to do it all later in year so that will be a win. Cool

Seasoned Champion
Posts: 12,192
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Registered: ‎01-09-2007

Re: Coronavirus

I'm still planning to fly to Singapore & Malaysia later this month - provided the airline/country doesn't cave in to these silly panicking types. My pension gets paid into my bank account every month, so I don't need to worry about getting trapped on the return journey.

I wonder about toilet roll buying habits if it was revealed that 1,770 people died annually in road accidents in the UK? Surely that counts as an epidemic.

A good source for your daily virus (updated every 24 hours) is https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/f94c3c90da5b4e9f9a0b19484dd4bb14 

"In The Beginning Was The Word, And The Word Was Aardvark."

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Hero
Posts: 4,701
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Registered: ‎31-07-2007

Re: Coronavirus


@wotsup wrote:

Would not be a medical ethicist for any money,  it is bad enough when things are going well and even then life and death decisions need to be made almost daily ( cost / benefit of treatment still has to be considered,  there is not a bottomless pocket of money available ), but in times of stress on the health system then decisions have to be made on the use of resources that are overwhelmed by the number of patients requiring life saving treatment,  and that is after all elective operations and other treatment for non-life threatening conditions has been suspended.  It would be impossible for health services to keep enough intensive care facilities available for the worst case scenarios,  it would mean tying up billions and billions in facilities and expensive equipment that may never get used,  also staff are needed and they tend to be highly qualified people ( its all a bit like the reason UK never has enough snowploughs and gritters when we get a bad winter, local councils cannot justify spending on expensive kit that is only needed for a few weeks every 10 to 15 years ).


@wotsup  For once I agree with you.Shocked Smiley

I don't know, if anyone has been watching the latest BBC Hospital series. Eye opening!

The latest episode was on bed blocking. A man who had lost both legs to diabetes needed tailored accommodation. There was none, but when some was found, he rejected it for privacy reasons. Ultimately something was found. A little three year old boy had been diagnosed with a wasting disease in his first year that would kill him. The family home was unsuitable, as he would always be in a wheelchair and around were hills and steep stairs, with which his mother could not cope. He needed 24/7 care with staff trained on the ventilator he needed. Until accomodation was available  (built) a care package could not be set up. Who knew , if one could be constructed then. Bright little tot though.

TBH we were left wondering, that maybe our medical knowledge had gone beyond what man can cope with. His selfish unwillingness to pay, eagerness to cut costs set against a philosophy of demanding everything for all as of right sit together uncomfortably. Have we reached the state, where our abilities make us, "strive officiously to keep alive" because we can?

 

 

 

No one has to agree with my opinion, but in the time I have left a miracle would be nice.
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Pro
Posts: 217
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Registered: ‎24-02-2009

Re: Coronavirus

@Luzern 

Real life medical drama is just as eye-watering as television.  Two of us in our family have worked on legal/medical matters which can be quite challenging. The NHS have to go to Court to request an order to switch off life support on many occasions. The other side demand their "right" to have their loved one kept alive, often pointlessly, for an indefinite period at incredible cost.  As has been said here going back many years there would not have been the technology for this situation to occur. Or lawyers earning money from it thanks to Mr and Mrs Blair's self interest.

On the other side of the coin a massive amount of cost is incurred in genuine negligence claims which are settled out of Court to avoid publicity.  If you are ever in a hospital with an instruction nil by mouth make sure that the staff can read English.  If they can't it will more than likely be fatal!

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Seasoned Champion
Posts: 1,570
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Registered: ‎21-11-2018

Re: Coronavirus

The burden of diabetes on NHS is crippling,  and getting worse every year,  it is a chronic condition needing regular ongoing care and causes so many physical problems including blindness ( and as we have seen in @Luzern post above, people lose limbs because of it ). It is often caused by bad diet, lack of exercise and obesity - some people have the diabetes gene but never develop it because they watch their diet and weight and take excercise while others who may not have the gene get totally obese eating all the wrong things and drinking too much and firstly develop  type 2 which is often called lifestyle diabetes.. if they carry on as they are it gets much worse.  Diabetes is gonna kill lot more people in the future than coronavirus or flu,  and if people make the right decisions it is preventable.. rather than the people that think they can abuse their body and do exactly what they want and when they get sick the NHS will sort them out.  There is an epidemic of diabetes sweeping the western world,  mainly caused by junk food, too much sugar packed into everything, too much alcohol and not nearly enough excercise.  There has never been a time in history when so much healthy food has been available,  but never has there been a time when so much junk is eaten either,  and younger people now developing it,  diabetes can actually be suicide by eating zero-nutrient high carb junk.

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All Star
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Registered: ‎25-07-2007

Re: Coronavirus

@wotsup My Mother died of the effects of Diabetes, I don’t recognise any of the causes you mention....

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Community Veteran
Posts: 10,057
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Registered: ‎02-08-2007

Re: Coronavirus

@wotsup 

Fully agree with you, no one is forced to put junk food in their mouths or consume vast amounts of alcohol, some are too lazy to make a effort to eat a proper diet and get some exercise. Fortunately the other killer....smoking is on the decrease.

Having said that the government should limit the fast food joints as some high streets seem full of these places which are multiplying at a fast rate as good money is being made by the owners, a high tax rate on such establishments would go some way in reducing the numbers.

If people cannot be bothered to look after their own health in respect of diet why should the nhs have to shoulder the responsibility.

There are of course rare conditions where a person could be obese due to some medical condition which is beyond their control so there are exceptions in every case.

@Champnet Sorry to hear about your mother, there are always exceptions and the above comments are a generalisation of some of the common reasons why some have problems.

I am not a diabetic but worked with someone who was and died in his sleep whilst fairly young, was not overweight and to my knowledge suffered no other health problems.

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Aspiring Hero
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Registered: ‎05-09-2016

Re: Coronavirus

When the NHS was founded the idea was that with better health care the population would gradually become healthier and need to use the service less and less; this has clearly not happened.