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Corbyn & nuclear option

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Corbyn & nuclear option

Whilst it was utterly stupid of Corbyn to say he would never use the nuclear option I suspect this was one of those times where someone has told the truth rather than saying nothing at all which would have been the correct option to take.
Think about it, if you were in that position and someone did manage to use such a weapon against us could you really give the order to strike back knowing that thousands, perhaps millions of innocent people would die ?
This cannot be compared to what America did to Japan as this clearly stopped the war earlier.
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Re: Corbyn & nuclear option

Corbyn has made a career out of being in Labour's awkward squad, he has voted against the whips so many times in following his brand of student politics. Now his long list of wacky statements made when he thought he was never going to be anywhere near power are coming back to bite him. He is confirming that he is never going to be fit to be a PM
MAD (mutual assured destruction) has been a serious defence policy and served us well during the cold war and after, now we have Putin so unfortunately has to stay.  Smiley
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Re: Corbyn & nuclear option

I think it's all got a bit out of hand to be honest.
The scots are anti nuclear... and so are a lot of people BUT we must remain realistic. There are other powers out there that remain a threat to us - russia or other, they have nukes and russia is usually quite willing to supply weapons to other countries with a fat enough wallet.
I personally hate nukes.. I think they're the invention of the devil and i suspect many would agree however we need to be able to defend ourselves.
Corbyn saying he'd never use them.. well i suspect he means as a first strike option - and i don't suppose any other politician would either. Retaliation or just the threat of it is something entirely different.
Whatever happens, the world is becoming a dangerous place and now is not the time to be thinking of scrapping our nukes. I would say righit at this moment in time they are more valuable to us than ever before - and i hate the damned things.
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Re: Corbyn & nuclear option

Fully  agree but we now face some groups who see it as an honour to die so the threat is of no value to them, fortunately they are not in a position to cause widespread destruction using a nuclear weapon but they do not lack the money or skills to access them in the future.
Sadly they live alongside many people who do not support their views but who would be killed or injured if we struck back.
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Re: Corbyn & nuclear option

Yes but even the fanatics have familes, children, partners etc who they care about.
The assasination of Bin Laden a while back probably sent a strong message back to those at the heart of terror too. The USA spent years doing it but finally nailed him thanks to DNA tests from needles used in an immunisation program of all things.
I agree that they're a dangerous threat and yes many don't care about dying but then there are also those who are cowards and brain wash children into blowing themselves apart - those people who want to live but still cause havoc. Those have death to fear.
Whatever happens scrapping our nukes is not an option. I don't think nicola sturgeon would realistically do so either - i suspect she's all talk but no action on that issue just to get higher up the ranks - just like every other politician (i hope - for once)
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Re: Corbyn & nuclear option

personally, I would support unilateral disarmament if someone could figure out a way of hovering every spec of nuclear material off the planet and sending it to a distant star, not a non proliferation treaty not a downsizing of the arsenal from 100 x planet destroyer capability to 10x  but either complete and total non existence or they stay forever, the purpose of the ability to use a first strike or send a retaliatory strike has to remain, if any country was stupid enough to get rid of the option they would be the first to get overrun in the coming years as resources start to run dry.
people like Corby are dangerous in that regard because far from considering what the capability and its possibility of being used confer is not "were out to get you so bow down before us" but "if you try anything your toast" and so from an ideological standpoint they are already on a loosing streak, there is no option and likely never will be to scrap weapons programs even if some alien appeared out of the blue and started to attack us and the whole planet banded together to get rid of them and then became a single nation of combined everything we would still require such weapons for planetary defence .....
and back in current reality, without the ability to deter such things there is nothing preventing a country like north Korea or Russia from sending a few hundred troop carriers to overthrow our country, right now they cant do it in case we wipe out their homeland, they cant send missiles at us because 1 we will return fire and 2 they might get shot down making them a double looser (nobody is quite sure about the anti missile side of things) every large nation on the planet has at least 1 nuclear weapon, that and leaking of policy documents is the only thing that has kept Israel safe (the deterrent effect) from being wiped out for the last 50 years (they proved they had nuclear weapons in the 60's)
of course this has all been brought back into the news in a much keener focus since the general was on the tele yesterday and gave his replies to questions asked specifically about Corby and his remarks during the labour party conference over the summer where he made a complete idiot of himself and proved that far from having he minerals to get the job done he cant even get his own party to follow his leading light never mind a country......
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Re: Corbyn & nuclear option

I don't think we should be threatened by Russia. Russia is doing a fab job at exposing the elite. It's the elite that will be our demise. Power eh, once you have it you just want more!!
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Re: Corbyn & nuclear option

I think  General Sir Nicholas Houghton summed it up perfectly in an excellent interview yesterday.
Quote
'The whole thing about deterrence rests on the credibility of its use. When people say 'you're never going to use the deterrent' what I say is you use the deterrent every second of every minute of every day.
'The purpose of the deterrent is you don't have to use it because you successfully deter.'
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Re: Corbyn & nuclear option

I saw that interview and agree.
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Re: Corbyn & nuclear option

The statement made by Nicholas Houghton is true but dated, in other words it has worked up to now but our main concerns were Russia & China, things have now changed our biggest threat is from smaller groups who do not care if they live or die.
I accept that at the present time they do not have access to such weapons but it would be a brave person who suggested they would never have access.
There was a program on tv recently that based on our current knowledge what the top ten things were that would result in the end of the world, ie: global warming, Asteroid, etc but top of the list was nuclear war.
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Re: Corbyn & nuclear option

Mr Corbyn is an honest guy who is unafraid to state his views. It doesn't necessarily make him the best choice for a Party wanting to be elected. In many ways he's a bit like arthritis, a painful Labour Party immune system reaction to the Bliar years.
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Re: Corbyn & nuclear option

Quote from: gleneagles
The statement made by Nicholas Houghton is true but dated, in other words it has worked up to now but our main concerns were Russia & China, things have now changed our biggest threat is from smaller groups who do not care if they live or die.
I accept that at the present time they do not have access to such weapons but it would be a brave person who suggested they would never have access.
There was a program on tv recently that based on our current knowledge what the top ten things were that would result in the end of the world, ie: global warming, Asteroid, etc but top of the list was nuclear war.

today the obvious threat indicators might suggest they have changed, but clearly with Russia consolidating its position as the controlling partner of the federation of eastern Europe, and also slowly creeping its power base into the EU (they control the gas /oil Europe runs its winter power off and have already proven they will use that supply line to control or curb the EU's ability to act against them other than public vociferous pontification)
how about in 5 >10 years time when more of the worlds oil has dried up, the coal mines are tapped out and shale gas is even more of a necessity, the option will be take over weaker nations to power the planet, countries like GB which have long boasted about just how much coal /shale/oil is under our feet and don't have the benefits of a nuclear arsenal..... then the biggest concerns will be the same as they have always been the big nations with the manpower to do it and the need to do it, and nothing to deter them from doing it.....
terrorist groups have been a threat to society in every country for a long time, all that's changed is not the ability to sow discord create mayhem and inflict fear in the minds of the populace of those nations, but to ensure far more of them know about it via the media, during the American revolutionary wars the colonial forces perpetrated vulgar terrorism at every given opportunity, but had they not then also made records of it and sent dispatch riders forth to spread the word it might of been months before the news reached further than the next town, now someone can be snatched off the streets in some distant province, and their decapitation torture or murder be streamed live across the world to both rally the faithful to the cause and sow the seeds of fear in the hearts and minds of the rest, which much like the methods used by the colonial forces in the American revolutionary war far from dispiriting opposition generates wrath and desire to extinguish the perpetrators (which is ultimately why the yanks fought on long enough and won)  a historical lesson that took more than a hundred years for anyone to realise what it meant, but at some point someone realised and created the Geneva convention to govern against such stupidity in the future ....something most terrorists could do well to understand!
we might believe due to the massive amounts of media coverage that old enemies no longer exist but we must also bear in mind there are still many reason to worry about them and other emerging "new" nuclear armed nations like Iran and North Korea both of which have had problems with histrionic leaders
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Re: Corbyn & nuclear option

Quote from: artmo
I think  General Sir Nicholas Houghton summed it up perfectly in an excellent interview yesterday.
Quote
'The whole thing about deterrence rests on the credibility of its use. When people say 'you're never going to use the deterrent' what I say is you use the deterrent every second of every minute of every day.
'The purpose of the deterrent is you don't have to use it because you successfully deter.'


I also agree, but would like to hear his argument for the MAD option if discussed with an IS fundamentalist
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Re: Corbyn & nuclear option


.Jpurneys, maybe I've had a hard day but what is MAD?
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Re: Corbyn & nuclear option

Mutually Assured Destruction.
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