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Contlactless Cards

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Community Veteran
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Registered: ‎06-04-2007

Re: Contlactless Cards

Quote from: nanotm
my mobile uses NFC and only needs to be within 2 feet of a similarly equipped laptop to activate yet other mobiles need to be physically touched to the device

Cards are not self powered, they have no batteries, they need the energy from the card reader to be strong enough to provide enough power for the electronics to have enough power to do anything. Your mobile may well have an NFC antenna booster chip.
So cards are actually very difficult to read from anywhere greater than a few inches or more away.
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Pro
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Registered: ‎11-02-2013

Re: Contlactless Cards

@godsell4
if that were remotely true rfid passports wouldn't be readable from 20 feet away with a suitable piece of equipment,
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
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Seasoned Champion
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Re: Contlactless Cards

It's like wifi - sometimes you get a signal and sometimes you don't.

"In The Beginning Was The Word, And The Word Was Aardvark."

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Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Contlactless Cards

Quote from: nanotm
@godsell4
if that were remotely true rfid passports wouldn't be readable from 20 feet away with a suitable piece of equipment,

But it is true, Credit / Debit cards aren't self powered, what makes you say that? If RFID passports can be read from that distance then surely that is done
Quote
with a suitable piece of equipment,
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Re: Contlactless Cards

his claim that only a self powered communication can be done at distance isn't true though its blatantly wrong.
as well you know Mook,
and yes I highlighted the fact suitable equipment is required, because far to many people don't understand that there is more than one way to skin a cat, the card reader devices in shops might be extreamly low powered units but that's not to say all units are the device in my mobile is similarly low powered yet the one in my laptop is not, which is a rather simplistic example, perhaps a better example would be the RFID tag on the back  side of some aircraft that is read by the radar stations hundred of miles away so they know the inbound in friendly /permited into that controlled air space ..... not widely used so perhaps not such a good example ...
how about the RFID system used by friendly troops on the ground during the 2nd gulf war so the awacs that was 300 miles away could tell if it was looking at friendly ground troops or not ....... tech doesn't always work but it sure as hell stopped a lot of the blue on blue's from happening
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
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Community Veteran
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Registered: ‎24-10-2013

Re: Contlactless Cards

no point arguing/debating with nanotm.
he's an expert in everything, remember.
i'll need to be careful now with all those people scanning the card in my pocket from 200 miles away, as they only need a suitable piece of equipment to do it.
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Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Contlactless Cards

Sorry but godsell4 makes no reference to anything other than cards (with the exception of acknowledging the NFC capability of the phone) and I deduce from that he / she means credit / debit cards as is the topic of discussion.
I think in this case it is an issue of context, and you were just a bit quick off the mark there, either that or you didn't read the post correctly.
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Re: Contlactless Cards

Quote from: Mook
.. and I deduce from that he / she means credit / debit cards as is the topic of discussion.

Yep.
And I was at an invite only test event for NFC devices last week, so make of that what you will.
The 'special equipment' described by nanotm is possible in theory but either the power required or weight/size of the antenna's, actually coils of wire in the case on NFC, would make it impractical to create anything that could read a card from more than a foot or two away. So practical vs possible is a religious debate I wont enter into.
Also there are many RFID technologies, NFC is just one of them, this leads to much confusion amongst the technology press and consumers a like. Some of the RFID technologies are designed to work wirelessly over a few meters, NFC is not one of them.
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Seasoned Champion
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Re: Contlactless Cards

It is impossible to stand within 12" of somebodies wallet then?
Try the tube in rush hour.

"In The Beginning Was The Word, And The Word Was Aardvark."

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Community Veteran
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Re: Contlactless Cards

Yes you can, but the equipment would be so large that the shopping trolley you are pushing around to carry the batteries in might give you away
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Re: Contlactless Cards

I tend to keep my RFID card (credit, so rarely take it out with me) in an old sweet tin, not really for RFID detection prevention, just cos it fits and is easy to store... Grin
The only other RFID card I have is my Go North East bus card (similar to them oyster things, but, you buy tickets beforehand, rather than charge it up with money), rarely have tickets on that thing so there's naff all to pinch if someone cloned it... Grin
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Grafter
Posts: 208
Registered: ‎08-08-2014

Re: Contlactless Cards

Quote from: nanotm

rfid passports wouldn't be readable from 20 feet away 

Has anyone told immigration, because every time I go through the automated gates you have to hold your passport tightly pressed to the reader for a least a minute before it even attempts to read it?

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Seasoned Champion
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Re: Contlactless Cards

But immigration queueing isn't fit for purpose. Grin Grin Grin

"In The Beginning Was The Word, And The Word Was Aardvark."

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Re: Contlactless Cards

because its so difficult to get an rfid reader /scanner/ cloner on the interwebs .... theres youtube videos on how to use them, indestructibles videos on how to diy build them even kits available for them along with the software required to program them .....
several news outlets did stories about how easy the RFID system is to clone, defcon had people create clone bank cards passports and id cards of attendees in seconds because everyone walked through the scanner got skimmed .....that scanner was strapped to the doorway......  the equipment doesn't need to be large, and with the advent of so many cheap high power batteries (like sony vtc4's) that can provide outputs of up to 30amps the only reason for pushing a trolley around would be to store the blank cards your printing ......
worse we have news stories in the press in the last few days of people having had their cards cloned and actively used for spending sprees during the Christmas period, the cards are old tech and the crims have had several years to perfect their end of the bargain, more than enough time for commercial offerings to be available through trade sites like Alibaba
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
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Re: Contlactless Cards

Quote from: chenks76
no point arguing/debating with nanotm.
he's an expert in everything, remember

told you !