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Contlactless Cards

Community Veteran
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Contlactless Cards

Picking up from another point in a recent post regarding someone scanning your card, how would you be able to show that someone had scanned your card as the first time you are likely to find out might be your monthly statement ?
Would you get the money refunded without going to a lot of hassle ?
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Community Veteran
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Re: Contlactless Cards

As far as I'm aware, the chips inside cards will log transactions for Chip & PIN, if the transaction is not in that log, then it's provable that it wasn't you or your card, however, banks have a dirty trick, they tell people to cut their cards up making shore they slice through the chip, thus destroying the logs and the victim's chances of proving they suffered fraudulent activity...
Whether the RFID version does the same, I'm not sure, but I would say it does, so if anyone has had their cards cloned, DON'T cut it up as it is evidence for use in an investigation (if it ever gets that far)... Smiley
Community Veteran
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Re: Contlactless Cards

Lets assume you do not use that card a lot and you have no use for that facility where you can swipe your card for purchases up to £30, what would be the problem in deactivating the chip with a magnet ?
it's not uncommon for cards not to work so the seller then enters your card number manually and you then input your pin number and the transaction is completed, similar to when you buy stuff over the phone or internet. ?
Community Veteran
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Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Contlactless Cards

There are random chip & pin checks with contactless transactions, you are occasionally asked to complete the transaction with chip & pin.
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Re: Contlactless Cards

Quote from: gleneagles
Lets assume you do not use that card a lot and you have no use for that facility where you can swipe your card for purchases up to £30, what would be the problem in deactivating the chip with a magnet ?
it's not uncommon for cards not to work so the seller then enters your card number manually and you then input your pin number and the transaction is completed, similar to when you buy stuff over the phone or internet. ?

I'm not sure that an RFID chip can be disabled in such a manner, the magnetic strip can be with a strong enough magnet (the sort of strength that would wipe a hard drive from across the room!), but the chip requires a radio frequency to power it up to be read and data exchanged, a magnet wouldn't excite the field coil to accomplish the task, sticking it in a microwave oven though, that'd do it, the other things I've looked at though seem to be related t the tinfoil hat brigade, so, beware of going down that path!! Grin
As for purchases made over the web, unless you challenge them, then the card issuer wouldn't have any interest unless it's an unusually large amount or in a location unrelated to yours, it's only transactions you challenge that come under investigation...
VileReynard
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Re: Contlactless Cards

I use a couple of cards for everyday transactions and a separate one for occasional internet ones.
I don't even know the PIN number for the internet one.
By putting the onus on the customer to have a secure PIN number etc, they are evading their responsibilities to check that card transactions are valid.
I suspect that if a bank decides to be difficult, then its probably down to ombudsmen & the like.
Contactless cards must be a goldmine for anyone who gets their hands on a "lost" or stolen one.

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Re: Contlactless Cards

Quote from: vilefox
Contactless cards must be a goldmine for anyone who gets their hands on a "lost" or stolen one.

Yep, but only up to £30 per transaction, still, if the crim likes their alcohols, that's plenty to stock up on the ol' russian potato juice...
nanotm
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Re: Contlactless Cards

well I managed to spent 295 using contactless in one establishment despite not buying anything ...... turns out you don't need to get that close when you use the card reader, so long as the card scanner is powerful enough it will read it ......
its fine though the bank refunded me the money after one quick phone call to say it wasn't me spending money/ I rather suspect its a problem that is well known and they are afraid of telling people the truth about it /
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
jab1
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Re: Contlactless Cards

When I get my next debit card around March (which I assume will be contactless), it will be stored in a metal case - hopefully avoiding the problem of inadvertent transactions.
John
nanotm
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Re: Contlactless Cards

it seems the plod are telling people to buy a special plastic case to carry the cards round in that has the tinfoil layer already impregnated in it .......
if you need a secure carry case then surely you need to get issued it with the sodding card /
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
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Re: Contlactless Cards

the "plod" tell us to do to lots of things, doesn't mean that specific items should be shipped with certain things.
for example.
the "plod" tell us not to download or share copyrighted content on the internet, yet when ISPs block access to those sites to stop you from doing it everyone is up in arms about how their civil liberties are being trodden on.
those who have cupboards full of tinfoil can go ahead and use it for whatever they deem necessary.
normal people will get on with their lives.
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Re: Contlactless Cards

In a quiet moment in my local Tesco Express that has contactless payment on their self-service tills, I conducted a small experiment just to see how close I needed to place my card to get the reader to activate the payment.
I was quite surprised to find that the card had to be within a inch of the reader before it activated, much further out than that and the card failed to register. It wasn't just one isolated reader, there are eight in the self-service and so far I've tried six of them, and they're all much the same.
I could be wrong about this but, I was under the impression that if contactless is used five times in fairly quick succession then on the fifth transaction a verified signature is required, thus limiting fraud losses to £150. I've certainly had this happen to me (before the recent limit increase), and I don't mind at all as I understand why its done.
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nanotm
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Re: Contlactless Cards

@petlew
it depends on how big an emitter the machine has, my mobile uses NFC and only needs to be within 2 feet of a similarly equipped laptop to activate yet other mobiles need to be physically touched to the device (that's an antenna power thing) the local shop has a contactless reader at one till where you don't even need to take the card out of your trouser pocket for it to register yet all the others your card needs to physically touch the screen for it to work (the offending device has since been disabled and replaced) other devices similarly have wider areas of "contact"  you might be correct about the contactless limits before pin verification required but those would be vendor/setup specific, if you program a till to require verification on the second transaction in that same store then it will do so (and thus minimise potential losses) if you set it to "authoriser defined" then the computer might not ask for verification until after the authoriser has been contacted and demands it be done /
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
PowerLee
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Re: Contlactless Cards

Earlier this year I bought a new wallet that blocks RFID up protect any contactless cards carried inside it.
I needed a new wallet anyway so went with a RFID blocking one.
Community Veteran
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Re: Contlactless Cards

Looking at the price of those Secrid wallets I think I will just wrap tin foil around my existing wallet.
Cheesy