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Climate change

wotsup
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Climate change

Watched ' climategate' dcumentary on BBC4 tv last night about how scientists at university of east Anglia deliberately removed the latest 10 years of data from their 'hockey stick' graph because it contradicted the previous data and showed a drop in global temperature.. Is the whole thing a big hoax / business opportunity / tax opportunity for governments.. ? Even NASA have to admit the rise in CO2 is re- greening the planet. More data coming through now that CO2 is a minor player in any climate change and other systems that we cannot influence or control are at play.. 

 

You can get on program on BBC iPlayer if you missed it ' climategate - science of a scandal'  

https://www.ecology.news/2019-07-12-climate-change-hoax-collapses-new-science-cloud-cover.html

30 REPLIES 30
billnotben
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Re: Climate change

I've always had the view of course there is climate change as it's the natural order of things. But down to mankind or mostly down to us? No I can't whole heartedly agree with that. Too many things have happened in recent millennia that would contradict that.

 

gleneagles
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Re: Climate change

The climate will change irrespective of what we do.....likely to speed up based on our activity.

Some countries will put more effort into reducing pollution but it seems to me some of the bigger countries will not be bothered whilst at the same time telling smaller or poorer countries what they must do to reduce pollution.

We are born into history and history is born into us.
shutter
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Re: Climate change

Climate change is a reality........ Especially in our house....   

 

 

The Central Heating boiler has gone on the blink !.... (crying chinaman emoticon)

 

had a gas fitter come round,... and he has said it`s "had it"  ... showed me some probs inside, like , cracked insulation bricks, and a couple of water leaks, and a pump that wasn`t working properly...

So... he is coming round on Monday to fit a new one...  ( happy face chinaman emoticon)

then the climate will change again.... !  (smirking chinaman emoticons) .

 

AlFox
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Re: Climate change

I'm afraid you have really misunderstood the science (apologies if you are a scientist, but maybe it's not your field).

The scientists at University of East Anglia certainly manipulated the data but that doesn't undermined the vast bulk of scientific data which clearly shows that anthropomorphic climate change is real. Of course, CO2 plays an important role in plant life and human life, but we are talking about its role in climate change. See:

https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

https://www.wwf.org.uk/updates/10-myths-about-climate-change

 and the many other sources.. of course you can find alternative views, just as you can find flat-earthers and people that believe in all sorts of gobbledygook.

It would be really helpful if people didn't post opinions on important matter unless they done their research or have knowledge or expertise on the subject - we still have people posting about MMR and people dying as a result.

 

billnotben
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Re: Climate change

All opinions matter and it's often the "experts" that get us into a mess in the first place.

AlFox
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Re: Climate change

I agree that all opinions matter. But don't confuse opinions, or beliefs, with fact.

If you believe that Dock Leaves cure cancer, with no evidence, that's up to you. But please don't publicise it so people with lumps go foraging rather than visit their GP.

Experts should be challenged as that's how we get progress, but with new information, not unfounded opinion.

Which 'experts' are you accusing of getting us into a mess?

Luzern
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Re: Climate change

Working to geological time there are massive changes, but I'm not sure we should use that for the hatstand on which to hang our interpretation of recent climatic changes, nor sensibly should we use weather e,g, three hot summers in succession. I believe something seems to have changed changed with industrialisation. Whether that change is concomitant or coincidental is not provable IMO. And, without the panic of groups such as ER and such, who would reverse to a sort of dark age, we have to work to solve or control the phenominem.

Having read two pieces, I would dismiss the climate change naysayers opinions. 

One email from Jones caused the most excitement. The phrase “Use Mike’s nature trick to hide the de...

and

In November 2009, the servers at the University of East Anglia in Britain were illegally hacked and ...

No one has to agree with my opinion, but in the time I have left a miracle would be nice.
gleneagles
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Re: Climate change


@AlFox wrote:

I agree that all opinions matter. But don't confuse opinions, or beliefs, with fact.

If you believe that Dock Leaves cure cancer, with no evidence, that's up to you. But please don't publicise it so people with lumps go foraging rather than visit their GP.

Experts should be challenged as that's how we get progress, but with new information, not unfounded opinion.

Which 'experts' are you accusing of getting us into a mess?


Fair enough but there have been plenty of things which people believed as fact that turned out to be anything but fact.

At one time everyone thought the world was flat, in more modern times smoking was good for you, remember the early days of aids and those adverts....based on expert opinions.

I accept that climate change is taking place, there is plenty of evidence to support it but there are very few things we can be certain of when claiming they are facts unless you are talking about death or tax.

We are born into history and history is born into us.
AlFox
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Re: Climate change

The difference between saying the world was flat, or smoking was good for you was that they were not based on expert opinion. They were based on... opinion.

Once we developed some scientific method, gathered evidence and had it rigorously challenged, often by vested interests (the church and tobacco companies in these examples) then the experts came to a consensus.

We are already at the consensus stage with global warming, so just denying it without presenting any expertise and new scientific evidence is unhelpful at best, dangerous at worst.

Experts get it wrong, but non-experts get it wrong more often... that's why they are experts.

wotsup
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Re: Climate change


@billnotben wrote:

All opinions matter and it's often the "experts" that get us into a mess in the first place.


Very true and a lot of people making a very good living out of climate change, and a lot of taxes being collected so it is firmly in the interests of many people to continue this saga and keep declaring worse and worse 'emergencies' to be able to continue with what what has turned out to be shut very lucrative business model...  This planet has been both much hotter and much colder in the past, they have found fossilized remains of large insects ( which because of the way insects breath which is different to other creatures ) the oxygen content of air must have been over 30%, so the planet has its own cycles and the Sun only has to vary its output slightly to make a huge difference to our temperature.  It is a very good job that not everyone believes everything they are told and will do their own research and continue to question  things that are presented as indisputable facts by establishment that often has other agendas.. I would take climate change much more seriously if delegates did not turn up to conferences in private jets, and if more was being done to control human population, which is the root of the vast majority of damage to our planet,  overpopulation will kill humanity long before climate change gets a chance.

 

The history of science is littered with indisputable facts that have been disproved later,  look at the problems Darwin had with his work upsetting the establishment applecart...

AlFox
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Re: Climate change

Challenging is always good, but...

Your last example contradicts your earlier statements.

Darwin did not just ask a few people and do some random research with the aim of contracting some well proven science. He did some rigorous research and came up with a theory which he sat on for a long time before publishing. He was an expert - not a person with an opinion. One of his main challenges was overcoming beliefs, not just proving the science.

There are clearly many more people making 'a good living' from the status quo that there are from climate change - otherwise it might be easier to get action.

It's not the establishment that is presenting the facts.. it's scientists.

"I would take climate change much more seriously if delegates did not turn up to conferences in private jets" - I think that's showing double standards as well. But it doesn't undermine the science.

"overpopulation will kill humanity long before climate change gets a chance" - maybe, but even if we control the population, that won't eliminate the requirement to reduce COe emissions; mana-made climate change started after the industrial revolution when the population was a lot smaller.

 

 

 

wotsup
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Re: Climate change

The first thing they teach you in science is that there are no absolute facts,  only facts that have not been disproved yet and replaced with another 'fact',  and that Ex = used to be, spert (spurt) = a drip under pressure.   It seems that when we have to dredge the seabed and destroy another ecosystem to get enough cobalt for electric vehicle batteries and have then to recycle toxic batteries at end of life that we are not getting any greener or eco-friendly and until humans stop treating the planet as their own personal property, doing nothing about population growth and using any resource as if there is no tomorrow,  then there soon will not be a tomorrow - and it won't be a bit of extra Co2 that caused the final catastrophy.

 

We are told by scientists and experts that it is greener to chop down and burn rainforest to grow sugar cane and corn to make ethanol so that we can add a few % to petrol to 'save the planet' when it should be obvious to anyone with more than a single brain cell that it is a stupid thing to do... Common sense goes out of the window once the blinkered vision experts get an idea into their head.  Then there is the 'emperors new clothes ' effect ( much beloved by art 'experts' ) where people are scared to say 'but he has not clothes on' ( but in the story a small child said it because no adult was brave enough ) - where once a theory gains momentum people think they will be labeled as stupid if they disagree...

 

Life on earth is carbon based,  so any extra carbon is surely good news....

AlFox
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Re: Climate change

You make some interesting points, but that don't undermine the science on climate change but (rightly) attack some fixes that haven't been thought through.

A similar approach was taken on lung cancer  - promoting 'Low Tar' cigarettes. But I think you'll find the majority of experts suggested giving up smoking!

shutter
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Re: Climate change

What I don`t "get" about all this climate change RUBBISH,,,... is that those who bleat the most about it, do the least about it...

and ... if everyone who "thinks" about climate change or global warming, as a threat to their existence, then perhaps they should re-evaluate time, and go back to the days of the cave men... who, in their infinite wisdom, started making fires, and cutting down trees, and burning fossil fuels to keep warm in winter, or colder lands..

THEY started GLOBAL WARMING... but WE are still here.....  and ....that.... my freinds, is called PROGRESS..

No matter how much tax the governments of the world put on their citizens freedom, the world will go around, as it always has done, and will end it`s life, as it has always been ordained to do so, in the far off distant future.

 

so all you "green" people.... get a life.... and  get on with it.... just the same as the cave men did....